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[oggiesnr]

My sight reading is iffy at best as is my learning by ear.  I use a combination of the two to learn new tunes and I'm quite slow.

I recently came across this http://www.lightandmatter.com/sight/sight.pdf. It's primarily aimed at sight reading for singing but I've been working my way through it using the bandoneon and I'm finding it really helpful.  It forces me out of my comfort zone and into keys I'd usually avoid and I find that I'm listening a lot more analytically to tunes and so going further when I try and learn by ear.

Hope it helps someone else.

Steve

[Hello]

The problem with sightreading on the melodeon is that a given note can often be played on both rows, usually with a different bellows direction.  The choice of row is usually dictated by what chords you want to play and this can take some working out.

[Theo]

The problem with sightreading on the melodeon is that a given note can often be played on both rows, usually with a different bellows direction.  The choice of row is usually dictated by what chords you want to play and this can take some working out.

I think that is a real extra complication.  I recently started playing fiddle and suddenly ready is much easier.

[Owen Woods]

I don't find it that difficult on melodeon, presumably because I've been playing a long time and have got into the habit of cross-rowing incessantly and constantly varying it, so that I don't get hooked into one particular fingering. I can usually sight-read things both hands in one go, assuming that the tune itself isn't stupidly fast or stupidly difficult.

[Anahata]

I don't find it that difficult on melodeon, presumably because I've been playing a long time and have got into the habit of cross-rowing incessantly and constantly varying it, so that I don't get hooked into one particular fingering. I can usually sight-read things both hands in one go, assuming that the tune itself isn't stupidly fast or stupidly difficult.

Me too.
I think it helps if you've learned to play other instruments and/or sing at sight and can play by ear; then you hear in you head what the music should sound like and you play what you hear. I can't imagine how I'd find chords when playing at sight If I couldn't hear the tune in my head.

[Owen Woods]

I don't find it that difficult on melodeon, presumably because I've been playing a long time and have got into the habit of cross-rowing incessantly and constantly varying it, so that I don't get hooked into one particular fingering. I can usually sight-read things both hands in one go, assuming that the tune itself isn't stupidly fast or stupidly difficult.

Me too.
I think it helps if you've learned to play other instruments and/or sing at sight and can play by ear; then you hear in you head what the music should sound like and you play what you hear. I can't imagine how I'd find chords when playing at sight If I couldn't hear the tune in my head.

This.

[Chris Brimley]

The problem with sightreading on the melodeon is that a given note can often be played on both rows, usually with a different bellows direction.  The choice of row is usually dictated by what chords you want to play and this can take some working out.

I entirely agree, this makes the learning process really quite difficult - you're always being confused by other learned runs of notes which aren't quite the same.  I posted something about this a few months ago, though I don't think it generated a huge amount of interest.  My idea was that what was needed was a set of symbols that you put on the music to guide you how to play a piece, so you go through the piece of music in advance with the chords, work out the optimum fingering, and then cement that pattern in place by inserting some sort of ^ or V symbol for push or pull, or say which row you want to use, as  mnemonic.  I have to say that I've moved on a little since then, I think the row number is usually the best to use, because you can quickly associate that with the right chord.  However there are occasions when ins and outs show the flow of the music well, and so that becomes best to use.

Then if you haven't played a piece of music for a while, you look through it in advance, and that successfully reminds you how you used to play it.

I reckon with a little familiarity this idea works OK.

[Simon]

I think that is a real extra complication.  I recently started playing fiddle and suddenly ready is much easier.

But an advantage of the melodeon is that you usually only have to decipher two or three keys. I haven't come across much melodeon tunes with more than 6 flats  
Apart from that I guess sightreading helps your general musical abilities regardless the instrument, so it's even good for melodeon players.

[jack]

I got a one-row in C a few weeks ago but didn't play much til last weekend when I tried sight-reading Sharp's Country Dance tunes Rufty Tufty etc.

I found I could play the tunes even though they're not in C ! Quite a good feel-good factor from doing this as I always wondered how it was done..

[Steve_freereeder]

The problem with sightreading on the melodeon is that a given note can often be played on both rows, usually with a different bellows direction.  The choice of row is usually dictated by what chords you want to play and this can take some working out.

I entirely agree, this makes the learning process really quite difficult - you're always being confused by other learned runs of notes which aren't quite the same.  I posted something about this a few months ago, though I don't think it generated a huge amount of interest.  My idea was that what was needed was a set of symbols that you put on the music to guide you how to play a piece, so you go through the piece of music in advance with the chords, work out the optimum fingering, and then cement that pattern in place by inserting some sort of ^ or V symbol for push or pull, or say which row you want to use, as  mnemonic.  I have to say that I've moved on a little since then, I think the row number is usually the best to use, because you can quickly associate that with the right chord.  However there are occasions when ins and outs show the flow of the music well, and so that becomes best to use.

This is where the CADB tablature system comes into its own, as employed by Bernard Loffet and others.
The tune is written in conventional staff notation, with an additional area beneath the staves to indicate which treble button to press, which bellows direction to use and which bass/chord buttons to use, and sometimes even which RH fingers to use.

There is a lot of material available on Bernard Loffet's website. An explanation of the tablature system is here: Explanation of CADB tablature. It's an adequate English translation, although the original French is probably better.

Here's an example: Kost ar c'hoad.

More tunes (mostly French or Breton  ) in CADB tablature see here: Lots of tunes in CADB tablature (scroll down)

The tablatures described are all for G/C melodeon, but you can use the same tablature for a D/G or C/F etc. The only difference will be the actual pitch of the resulting notes; they will automatically be transposed to the particular key of the instrument being used; i.e. if a tune is written in G for a G/C box, it will sound in D when played on a D/G box. You could end up with some rather squeaky sounds on a D/G box unless you have the option of a low-octave voice,  but it's good practice for playing at the dusty end of the keyboard!

[Chris Brimley]

Ah yes, Steve, we discussed that on the earlier thread.  The trouble with that system is, just look at it!  You'd have to develop a concert pianist's sight-reading abilities to be able to play from it immediately!  What I had in mind was very much more a mnemomic, that would help box players select the right fingering pattern where there are several alternatives, and reminding them how they played it before - so for most of the time you wouldn't bother writing it down, because there's one obvious way of playing that bit.  But many tunes have little passages in them which can be played in a variety of ways, and if you select the wrong one without thinking your fingers will get in a twist, or you won't get the flow right, or you'll find half way through your RH's in the wrong place for the next LH chord.

To give a simple example of what I mean, take the first few notes of Soldier's Joy:  A,F#,D,F#,A,F#,D,F#,A

On a DG box, many people just play them all push on the outer row, which I'll call 1.  To tell yourself that, you could write 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1, or perhaps 1                        , or: v v v v v v v v v, or: v                 .  One glance at any of these will guide you how to play it immediately.

However I much prefer to play the notes on the 1st and second rows. I like to do this because IMO it's faster, bouncier, and easier to play accurately.  So I would play it like this:  1 2 2 2 1 2 2 2 1, (perhaps written 1 2     1 2     1 above the notes to show just the row changes).  Or you can write it v ^ v ^ v ^ v ^ v ^, and again you immediately get the idea from the pattern. 

So, what I do when I learn a tune from the dots is to write above the dots v's or 1,2, or 3, but only where these passages come along.  You can then on-stage remind yourself of the fingering in advance of playing it, and without actually sounding the notes.  You don't need to tell yourself about the obvious bits.  I really find this has helped me a lot not to make mistakes, and has made sight-reading much more practical.

[Simon]

You'd have to develop a concert pianist's sight-reading abilities to be able to play from it immediately!

I'm not a concert pianist (although I do play the piano), but I don't have trouble playing from CADB tabs. On my CF I can play from notes too, but if the dots are written for another tuning I'm lost. The major advantage of button numbers is that it's independent of the box tuning (apart from the chords, but you'll get used to that fairly quickly). The confusing thing is that there is another system where the numbers are not split in push and pull notes, but in melodeon rows (used e.g. in the French Trad Magazine).

[Chris Brimley]

Simon, are you just playing from the tabs, or are you reading the dots simultaneously?

[Steve_freereeder]

You'd have to develop a concert pianist's sight-reading abilities to be able to play from it immediately!

I'm not a concert pianist (although I do play the piano), but I don't have trouble playing from CADB tabs.

I'm not a concert pianist either, (and as I don't play the piano, I am unlikely ever to become one) although I am an orchestral clarinettist. But likewise I don't have trouble playing from CADB tabs. I find it quite intuitive and not off-putting at all. It is useful to see how French players approach their fingering technique - mostly cross-rowing, but not always.

When reading from CADB tablature, I read the tabs and the written music together. The latter gives me the shape of the music which I simultaneously 'hear' in my head (see below). I tend not to need the button numbers - the correct buttons seem to be automatically 'there' for me - but I do find the bellows direction indication useful.

I don't use CADB routinely, but if a tune is already in CADB, it aids the reading/learning process, especially if the genre of the tune is a little unfamiliar, as is the case with some of the Breton tunes.

For conventional staff notation not in CADB, I have developed my own system, using standard violinists' down-bow/up-bow symbols for bellows push/pull, adding them only where necessary to give me a quick reminder when learning the tune.

Mostly, like Anahata, I see the written music and hear the tune in my head. Somehow (mainly automatically) that gets translated into finger positions and bellows action.

Ultimately, everyone will have their own pet way of doing things which works for them, as this thread is already demonstrating.

[Chris Brimley]

Ultimately, everyone will have their own pet way of doing things which works for them, as this thread is already demonstrating.   
 

Absolutely, I offered mine up only because I think there's a gap for box players trying to sight read tadpoles, and I wanted to share my attempts at overcoming it.  It really has worked for me, and it has encouraged me to stick with using traditional music notation.

[Simon]

Simon, are you just playing from the tabs, or are you reading the dots simultaneously?

It's similar to what Steve wrote, a combination of tab and staff. The timing is only in the staff, so you can't play from the numbers alone. I've also seen staff notation with notes in different colours for push/pull (by Pennec?). Other people have used stem up/down for push/pull, but you've still got the transposition problem if the music is written for another tuning.

[Ebor_fiddler]

There's nothing like playing a gig where your carefully prepared tune list has been junked by the Oldest Member and replaced with his favourites! This really sharpens up your sight reading! 

[Andrew Wigglesworth]

There's nothing like playing a gig where your carefully prepared tune list has been junked by the Oldest Member and replaced with his favourites! This really sharpens up your sight reading! 

Downright disrespetcfull (to the other musicians and paying punters) and unprofessional I'd call that. They'd either be sacked or I'd walk.

[GbH]

When I've been in a position to use it, I've found the CADB system to be quite useful.  However, there's a problem with it, in that it assumes that all keyboard layouts are the same, when they're obviously not.  So, for the most part, anything in CADB that uses the third row ends up being, to a greater or lesser extent, wrong for my instrument.  OK, so it's not a big deal for me to work out what note button it should be.  Yet, it does make the system feel a bit flawed.  Perhaps what's needed is some sort of computerised equivalent, where you can enter your own keyboard set-up so that it configures the tab output accordingly.