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Author Topic: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina  (Read 5347 times)

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Barry J

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Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« on: October 16, 2010, 05:09:26 PM »

Hi, new to this forum.

I play anglo concertina and am interested in also learning melodeon.

I've had a read of the different types of melodeon and need some advice.

I play sea shanties, slow Irish airs and the odd English trad folk tune.

I'm obviously used to different notes on push/pull and quite like the mellow sound of others playing melodeon.

In terms of easy transition, what type of melodeon would you recommend and why (B/C or others ??)

Also, what is a good starter make/model. I've got the Hobgoblin catalogue which lists a fair range of different melodeons.

I don't want to spend too much on my first model, but don't want to buy a toy.

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Barry J

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2010, 05:14:44 PM »

Sorry Ive just noticed a similar topic going on. Apologies for the duplication of question.

To continue on from the advice already given in that, I play C/G anglo, so I guess I'm looking for a similarly tuned melodeon so I can play all my favourites tunes with either instrument.
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2010, 09:02:54 AM »

Hi Barry - what are all your favourite tunes? The reason for asking is that,for example, if you play a lot of English folk tunes then a D/G melodeon would be a good model to go for; if however you play mainly Irish traditional music then maybe it's worth looking at a half-tone box like a B/C?
AL
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george garside

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2010, 09:28:27 AM »

 Its not so much a question of whether you are going to be playing 'English' or 'Irish' music or for that matter French, Scottish or Welsh or whatever.  The real reason for choice between GD,CF or semitone BC etc is swhether you are content with a very limited key range (asumming we are talking about standard 2 row layouts) or whether you want  a chromatic box (BC etc)that can be played easily in FCGDAE & with more difficulty in tthe flat keys. 

The other point to consider is the bass or lack of!  The  DG etc  boxes have good thumpable bass that can, if so desired, be used to drive a rhythm most of the time. On the other handd the normal bass on BC etc boxes is of very limited use unless playing on the row in C!

As I play ;both systems sits usually the bass question that decides which box to use.  (there is also of course the BCC# with stradella bass that maintains the push/pull tradition, is seaslily chromatic & has bass to provide decent rhythm and harmony - but we won't go into all that here! );D

george
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Fidjit

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2010, 10:02:58 AM »

As you are in London. There are several places where you can go to sessions (depends where in London you are) Crawley, Walthamstow etc. and hear some melodeons.

For a starter I'd go for a D/G, (you can join in with the crowd ) but I'm biased towards the Morris side of things.

Chas
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Barry J

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2010, 10:47:08 AM »

Well I suppose it depends on what is mean by ITM.

I like slow Irish airs and sea shanties, but don't tend to play the faster ITM like jigs and reels.

Looking at the D-G key layouts, it seems that most of the notes that I commonly play on my concertina are available
on the one treble row. Most of the sharps on the B/C seem to be on the second row which means a lot of cross row work ??

I'm looking towards maybe something like a Pokerwork as a starter instrument, as they seem highly regarded on here and have
ordered a D/G tuition book so I can get my head round how the instrument is played.
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Theo

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2010, 11:22:17 AM »

I like slow Irish airs and sea shanties, but don't tend to play the faster ITM like jigs and reels.

Looking at the D-G key layouts, it seems that most of the notes that I commonly play on my concertina are available
on the one treble row. Most of the sharps on the B/C seem to be on the second row which means a lot of cross row work ??


For that repertoire on a D/G you will be missing out a lot of you aim to play mainly on one row.

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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Barry J

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2010, 11:28:07 AM »

Please can you explain this ?



For that repertoire on a D/G you will be missing out a lot of you aim to play mainly on one row.


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Theo

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2010, 11:35:11 AM »

If you play across the row you extent the possibilities in two ways:

1 - more possibilities for LH chords.  For example you can use Em in place of a G chord by plying on pull on the outside row.

2  - more choice for phrasing which would be particularly useful on slow airs.  For example in the key of D or G you can play a whole scale on pull except for the note D, which enables you to play more smoothly.

BTW  sea shanties are traditionally sung without any instrumental accompaniment.  Doesn't stop you using a box of course, but you won't be able to work the sheets at the same time ;D
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Barry J

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2010, 11:38:47 AM »

OK thanks for the clarification.

I know very little about melodeons, hence my investigative posts.

Actually, I play more forebiters than true shanties. The latter tends to be a bit raw musically, for my taste.
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george garside

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2010, 12:25:47 PM »

on the one treble row. Most of the sharps on the B/C seem to be on the second row which means a lot of cross row work ??




Yep! just think of the C row as being akin to the white keys on a piano keyboard  & the B row as containing a full set of sharps & flats plus a couple of spare white notes in case they come in handy!

 george
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Rob2Hook

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2010, 12:37:28 PM »

BTW  sea shanties are traditionally sung without any instrumental accompaniment.  Doesn't stop you using a box of course, but you won't be able to work the sheets at the same time ;D

Yes, that's the trouble with single handed sailing.  I can steer with the tiller between my legs (means playing in the standing position) but working the sheets actually requires both hands, even with self-tailing winches.  Of course with my preference for dance tunes, I tend to play hornpipes.  Any suggestions where I can safely put the box whilst I'm busy?  ;D

Back to the question.  It will be easier initially for an anglo player to learn the quint tuned system - D/G, C/F, GC, etc - as the keyboard is an inverted version of the combined sides of an anglo.  As stated on that other thread, my mate tends to play in the upper octave as he can use the anglo fingering.  As the relationship of the two rows is inverted, that is the G row of a D/G is higher pitched than the D row, cross row fingering goes in the other direction, down rather than up.  A quint tuning will give the older style Irish feel, from the early twentieth century.

Semitone boxes, B/C, C/C#, C#/D, etc. tend to be used without basses as a purely melody instrument - but then the thumping basses wouldn't sound right, would they?  Although there isn't the instant familiarity with the keyboard layout, you may find it easier to be learning a totally different instrument and won't find it confusing your anglo playing.

Rob.

P.S. I don't really play on the boat - I'm told the salt air would quickly write off the reeds.
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Lester

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2010, 03:30:17 PM »

P.S. I don't really play on the boat - I'm told the salt air would quickly write off the reeds.

What you need is a brass reeded box then  ::)

Eoin

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2010, 10:51:08 PM »

This also loosely connected to my comment on 'BC - only for Irish?'.

As an GC anglo player ventured into BC, I have after an interval of about 9 months picked up the concertina again.  And lo!  I can actually play it better than before my temporary desertion of its charms.  I had earlier been quite strict about which finger plays which 'column', as opposed to rows, if you see what I mean, although playing in Amaj does force you to relax that quite a bit; now, with the necessity on the BC of being very flexible about which little piggy plays what, I find that I instinctively roam about the anglo buttons with unrestrained abandon, which makes the interpretation of so many tunes very much easier. 
Both of these instruments have their own irresistable attraction, so why am I playing around on the side with an octave mandola???? 
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Barry J

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2010, 08:46:57 AM »

Eoin,

I have been experimenting with my new B/C box, which I've had for a few days now - I switch between that and my Anglo quite readily.
I was quite surprised how quickly I became familiar with the B/C layout and started playing melody, but then with a few small key exceptions, it's very
similar to my anglo.

I'm enjoying the different and somewhat richer sounds from the melodeon and of course, I now have the left hand keys to adventure with.

Its easier if you don't think about it too much.. 
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george garside

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2010, 09:44:49 AM »

just don't expect to much from the left hand side of te box, 'cos you won't get it whatever you do

george
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ladydetemps

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2010, 12:08:37 PM »

Started with C/G concertina, went to D/G melodeon. Since been hopping between the two. I seemed to develop ability to do different stuff with different hands at the same time on both instrument. I suspect the melodeon helped the concertina rather than the other way round though.

One thing I did notice when returning to concertina was the difference in sound. The tina was so high and 'weak' compared to the melodeon to my ears. So I try to combat that feeling by playing in octaves when I can on the concertina.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 12:10:20 PM by ladydetemps »
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Barry J

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2010, 01:09:42 PM »

Yes I agree - I'm working on some ghostly music for Halloween and the melodeon sounds much richer (and creepier) than the concertina.
The bass adds that spine-chilling quality.

Its just nice to have the two for variety.

One thing I did notice when returning to concertina was the difference in sound. The tina was so high and 'weak' compared to the melodeon to my ears. So I try to combat that feeling by playing in octaves when I can on the concertina.
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malcolmbebb

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Re: Learning Melodeon after Anglo Concertina
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2010, 11:03:35 PM »

Oh dear - gonna have to keep my head down - I actually prefer the sound of a 'tina. Not heard any of the single voice melodeons, but they seem to be on the pricey end so maybe just as well...

However, it's difficult to get as much power out of one. Just bought an Erica off Ebay, like it a little better than the Pokerwork I have on loan. I thought it sounded "sweeter", my wife said "less shrill".

So far I'm finding going between C/G concertina and G/D melodeon fairly easy if I stay in G.
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