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Author Topic: How many times through a tune  (Read 7320 times)

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Andrew Wigglesworth

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Re: How many times through a tune
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2010, 01:29:15 PM »

I suspect not before, but by cross posting on two threads I think so.

Not a good idea.

Theo

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Re: How many times through a tune
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2010, 02:14:53 PM »

This seems to be the one of just two  threads here that's not about specific Tunes. Personally I rarely visit this section.

If you spend a few moments reading the topic headings here you will see many threads that are "not about specific tunes"


Quote

It did seem to be generating interest where it was. Have I offended forum etiquette?

You split the discussion of this topic between two threads, which just leads to confusion and people talking at cross purposes.

If I spot this sort of thing in time I can merge the two threads, but in this case I think it would just make more confusion.

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dunlustin

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Re: How many times through a tune
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2010, 04:16:57 PM »

Thanks AW for the guidance
I'll avoid crossposting
The purpose of my new thread wasn't to split it but to raise a new idea:
How many times through a tune raises the question "Why am I playing this?" or put another way "What is it for?" I thought that might be worth thinking about. The Bailey quote was there because it made him stop and think.
Here's another example:
In the early 70s, a French Band put out a recording of Playford Tunes. This caused some discusion among dancers in the C# House set who were surprised at the tempo. On of them realised that the French band were using tempos (i) that they had danced to years before. Conclusion - over the years they had changed the way they did things without realising.
To give a melodeon example and stay on track: Personally I love the way English melodeon left hand has developed over the decades. On the other hand, I remember a good friend saying unthinking banging away with the left hand could be thought of as tuned percussion = rhythmic drive and who cares if an F# minor went better.
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Re: How many times through a tune
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2010, 12:33:38 PM »

The etiquette thing is important. At the session I go to in Greenwich, it's three times through a tune, a sea of faces looking at you for what's coming next, and a visible air of disappointment if it's nothing.
That's what I'm used to, and I think it's the convention at the Radway (Sidmouth FF) and in many English music sessions.
But all sessions are different and each has its own set of unwritten rules, habits and conventions. I don't do Irish sessions, but I'm told the convention in typical hardcore Irish sessions is that somebody will start e.g. a reel, play it twice, maybe follow with 2x another reel, and then others will tag more reels on the end until maybe after about 20 minutes they'll decide they've had enough or nobody can think of another tune.

When starting a tune that's unfamiliar to others, it's difficult to know what to do sometimes. At our most regular local session, some players, especially if they mostly learn tunes by ear, really like a new tune to be played lots of times to give them a chance to pick it up. Other times you may have to make a judgement that nobody's really interested and stop or change to something else

If possible, it's a good strategy to follow an unfamiliar tune with a better known one than to do the opposite.
When visiting a session you're not familiar with, it's impossible to guess what's "well known" and what isn't.

At ceilidhs we like to do two tunes per dance, which is a compromise between the two sides of the "medley mania" argument. If it's a set dance and the whole dance is repeated the change of tune fits nicely with the halfway point were the first couple are back at the top.

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Stiamh

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Re: How many times through a tune
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2010, 02:42:49 PM »

But all sessions are different and each has its own set of unwritten rules, habits and conventions. I don't do Irish sessions, but I'm told the convention in typical hardcore Irish sessions is that somebody will start e.g. a reel, play it twice, maybe follow with 2x another reel, and then others will tag more reels on the end until maybe after about 20 minutes they'll decide they've had enough or nobody can think of another tune.

I think this must be a description of an Irish session with no Irishmen/women in it (:) Actually, I do have on tape just such a reel marathon recorded at a session of crack players at Willie Clancy week in 1985. But that was very unusual in my experience, apart from being very exciting because of the skill and energy of the players. 

Manners are definitely important. I regard it as somewhat impolite to "hijack" a set started by another player unless it is clear that the player who started the set hasn't another tune to add, or invites the others to carry on. I know I hate it if I start a set with particular changes in mind and somebody barges in with another tune uninvited.

The main thing is that tacking tunes onto someone else's set should in my view be done in a collaborative spirit and not a competitive one, which you regrettably do come across from time to time.

In sessions where people may not know each other or have played much together, I like to use a formula that I first heard used by Jackie Daly at the session I mentioned above. Before starting a set he would let the other musicians know what he intended to play, mainly by running through the first few bars of each tune, checking whether the others knew them, even giving them time to quickly refresh their memories. This preamble could take a couple of minutes before everybody launched into the set together. The results were really strong, cohesive sets. 

Spontaneous sets are great fun too, but at times where you feel it's important to include everyone, or produce music that flows together well, this technique is useful, and courteous.

Owen Woods

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Re: How many times through a tune
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2010, 03:07:47 PM »

Manners are definitely important. I regard it as somewhat impolite to "hijack" a set started by another player unless it is clear that the player who started the set hasn't another tune to add, or invites the others to carry on. I know I hate it if I start a set with particular changes in mind and somebody barges in with another tune uninvited.

Somewhat impolite? I would regard that as a massive understatement! :P
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Graham Spencer

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Re: How many times through a tune
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2010, 04:02:44 PM »

When visiting a session you're not familiar with, it's impossible to guess what's "well known" and what isn't.

At ceilidhs we like to do two tunes per dance, which is a compromise between the two sides of the "medley mania" argument. If it's a set dance and the whole dance is repeated the change of tune fits nicely with the halfway point were the first couple are back at the top.



Absolutely agree on both counts. On my last visit to the UK I visited a session 200-odd miles from my old home turf, where I knew no-one and had no idea what to expect; as it turned out I was warmly welcomed, made to feel at home and pleasantly surprised by the size of the repertoire we had in common - though it took half an hour or so to suss out the (implicit) hierarchy and catch on to the accepted normal modus operandi.
In my formative years of playing for dances, the accepted norm was twice through a tune and on to the next, regardless; then came the "Polka Revolution" when "one tune per dance" became the standard. These days I tend to favour two tunes per dance - it means you move on to a new tune before your creativity with the first one has been entirely drained, and the change of tune (usually!) gives a nice lift to the dancers just at the point where it's needed.
Graham
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Re: How many times through a tune
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2010, 01:10:48 PM »

At a session last night there was some confusion over whether or not we were playing a third time through. The session 'leaders' explained :" Three part tune - three times through", which I think is a bit strange and unnecessary. A good job that nobody started 'The Strayaway Child' with all of its 9 parts.
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