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[Theo]

One of the great joys of a nice two-row 8-bass box is that it is so simple and it is limited in what it can do.  That makes you a more creative player to overcome the limitations.

But...

sooner or later many players start to think devious thoughts along the lines of "If I just had an extra few buttons I could ..."

So what are your ideas for simple additions or modifications that extend the capabilities of the box without compromising its basic simplicity?

Here are some of mine:

• I like the light weight and responsiveness of a two voice box, but in D/G the top third of the range is too squeaky  - pipe dream solution:  an octave tuned two voice D/G.
• The standard 8 bass does a great job of getting a lot into a small number of buttons, but 12 or more would be nice, but how to arrange them.  I quite fancy a bass end with no chords, with just 8 buttons playing bass notes only you could have a chromatic bass and by analogy with concertinas you would have a "duet melodeon".  Walking bass on melodeon anyone?

Any more ideas?  Remember you must not compromise the small size and simplicity of the instrument.

[Dazbo]

How about an extra stop to take out the fifths as well as one for the thirds? Give you a free bass (just missing one note - F# on a DG)

[rees]

Italian melodeon makers (Giustozzi and Verde), not being familiar with the concept of D/G have, on first contact, supplied me with instruments pitched an octave low. They sounded very nice but the three voice model with a low, low register was probably only useful for contacting submarines, whales, etc.

[Theo]

How about an extra stop to take out the fifths as well as one for the thirds? Give you a free bass (just missing one note - F# on a DG)

Sorry you've lost me there, where do you get the C#, not to mention Bb D# G# and Fnat?

[Pushpull]

How about an extra stop to take out the fifths as well as one for the thirds? Give you a free bass (just missing one note - F# on a DG)

I've contemplated replacing C on the push with F# (bass side this is). Gives a good passing note to G. Of course it means more cross rowing to get round only having C on the pull. Oh and I do like Richard Arrowsmith's C drone which he seems to use a lot and needs C push and pull. Hmm, maybe Theo's right - 12 bass.

I quite like the octave tuned 2 voice idea too, ideally in something Tommy sized but with more bass oomph.

Roy.

[Malcolm Clapp]

I once had devious thoughts....   :-)     (Forgive me, Father....)

I modified a red Erica some years back to D/G octave tuning with 12 bass, just as Theo suggests, though not with the same bass idea.

Despite normally having a strong preference towards wet tuning, I have found that the octave tuning gives a surprisingly satisfactory tone to my ear as compared to dry tuning (and also makes me somewhat more welcome at certain sessions!)

The left hand side has the normal 2 button pairings of bass/chord configuration, but currently tuned as follows (though I have changed them a few times over the years!)

Air 
   (push/pull)        (push/pull)

      E/Am                B/Em

      D/A                  G/G

      G/D                  C/C

Another pipe dream I had was to have a Corona II to D/G/C. I have only seen one other, but the pitch of the rows on that one was not consistent with normal Corona fingering. Eventually I designed and made up one that was. In other words, imagine a standard G/C with a low and lugubrious D row outside of it. Wet tuning of course!

On both of these boxes, there was a fair bit of carpentry work to the reed blocks to modify the size of the reed chambers and accommodate longer reed plates. If I was doing this sort of work regularly I think I would make new blocks, but as both were one-off experiments, recycled blocks worked for me, ex-G/C size blocks on the Erica and ex-B/C/C# (Trichord) blocks on the Corona.

I still play the Erica regularly, but sold the Corona some years back, though I believe it is still being used

MC

     

[finnhorse]

On my G/C Pokerwork, it's positively maddening that there isn't a G on the pull.  It would be nice to have 25 treble buttons in this order: low notes at the bottom, 19 buttons of standard G/C keyboard, accidentals after that, followed by low and middle G's on the pull with reversals of C# and F# on the push.  And a nice fat groove on the underside edge of the keyboard, instead of along the outer edge.  I guess I could just modify a club for this purpose?

Looking inside the box, I'm surprised that it isn't easier to switch out reed blocks and make the box multi-key capable without too much tinkering.  So without having to carry arouynd a tool kit and a bag of reed blocks, I imagine a one-row box with something like the bolt action of a Springfield rifle located on the face of the cabinet.  It would disengage the present reed block with one motion, and bringing the bolt back down, seat a new block in its place.  You could probably make it airtight with a mechanical lock and heavy rubber seals, and both blocks would be attached to the mechanism on the inside via a wheel and spring.  Lock and load!  You could have two or three keys in one box, and it'd weigh about as much as a full-size three row. 

[Pushpull]

I imagine a one-row box with something like the bolt action of a Springfield rifle located on the face of the cabinet.  It would disengage the present reed block with one motion, and bringing the bolt back down, seat a new block in its place.

Aaaagh, get your head down. he's going to.......... play the accordion.

[Québécois]

It's funny to see how many players wish they could "chromaticize" their typical melodeon!

I tend to agree with Theo's opening statement about the creativity, but instead of "overcome its limitations" I would use "make use of its features".

Would a didjeridoo player wish there were additional "notes" on his instrument? Probably not. The skill of playing didj is in the player, not the instrument. The "missing" notes on a melodeon are a feature, not a limitation. Nevertheless, as noted earlier, I find that on many instruments the upper-third part of the treble keyboard is not very useful, I'd rather see more low notes on a typical 2-row.

[joe]

But with the scale shifted to incorporate these low notes would it be more difficult to incoroporate the accidentals into tunes?

I did get to the stage where I thought a couble of buttons here, there etc would make things better, but instead of going down that route I decided to experiment more, and really enjoy trying to overcome the challenges that the limitations of the box present.

[Theo]

On my G/C Pokerwork, it's positively maddening that there isn't a G on the pull. 

You just need  club style 'gleichton' with G/G instead of G/A on the C row, or flip the G/A reeds Dutch style.

Looking inside the box, I'm surprised that it isn't easier to switch out reed blocks and make the box multi-key capable without too much tinkering.  So without having to carry arouynd a tool kit and a bag of reed blocks, I imagine a one-row box with something like the bolt action of a Springfield rifle located on the face of the cabinet.  It would disengage the present reed block with one motion, and bringing the bolt back down, seat a new block in its place.  You could probably make it airtight with a mechanical lock and heavy rubber seals, and both blocks would be attached to the mechanism on the inside via a wheel and spring.  Lock and load!  You could have two or three keys in one box, and it'd weigh about as much as a full-size three row.   

Sorry I'm going to rule that one out on the grounds of excessive complication 

[Theo]

But with the scale shifted to incorporate these low notes would it be more difficult to incoroporate the accidentals into tunes?

That reminds me...

of another idea (not mine) to add an extra push note to each octave so that the fingering becomes the same in each octave eg:

D/E  F#/G  A/B  X/C#  D/E etc  where X is your choice of accidental or reversal.

[rees]

That reminds me...

of another idea (not mine) to add an extra push note to each octave so that the fingering becomes the same in each octave eg:

D/E  F#/G  A/B  X/C#  D/E etc  where X is your choice of accidental or reversal.

Now, of all the mad ideas I've had regarding melodeon mods, that one had never occurred to me.
How absolutely, fiendishly clever. No good for us gnarled old pros, too much to unlearn, but a freshly sprouting player might do well on that system.
I'd probably go for X = C natural, but X = Bb opens up some interesting stuff too.
X = G or B would both be fun.

Thank you Theo, you've taken the tedium out of today's task of making pallet levers!

[Matthew B]

Theo,
I like the idea of an octave tuned two-voice box, but I'd argue for couplers or stoppers to allow for single voice playing on either reed.  Twelve "free basses" would be interesting, particularly with a stop to drop the low voice, so they could be set to play at the right pitch to extend the range of the low end of the box a bit, and add a few otherwise hard-to-reach accidental options.  They'd have to be unisonoric to serve that function which would be pretty entertaining.  This all noted, my own pipe dream is have a bit more time to work on the existing systems.   

[george garside]

my ideal 2 row Dg box would be 4th button doh 3 voice musette tuned as near to Shand Morino sound as possible with stop to take out the sharp & flat reeds and 8 stradella bass CGDA with thirdless major chords.

 for a very light 3 row I would settle for  a castagnari benny  in  BCC# format tuned to something like hohner pokerwork sound  or better still if it is possible to squeeze in 3 voices I would go for shand morino(ish) tuning with stop to remove sharp & flat reeds.

 I would go for 12 (same both way bass)  being all thirdless major chords i.e. all 'pa's' & no 'um's'  . Db Ab Eb Bb F C G D A E B F. This would provide a very satisfactory degree of chromasticity  with reasonable bass harmony & rhythm possibilities.

george

[Stiamh]

...another idea (not mine) to add an extra push note to each octave so that the fingering becomes the same in each octave eg:

D/E  F#/G  A/B  X/C#  D/E etc  where X is your choice of accidental or reversal.

I can't help thinking that if this were really a good idea, it would have been standard since about 1880! At first sight, apart from adding a useful extra note, it would have the enormous benefit of standardizing fingering across multiple octaves, which would open the way to having longer boxes with bigger ranges (I have to think far too hard for my liking when playing passages below the 4th button doh).

But by introducing a push note that wasn't in the major chord of the row's home key, it changes the basic nature of the box which would, I'd guess, remove as many possibilities as it added.

Chromatic harmonicas apparently standardize the note layout in different octaves by adding an extra tonic, i.e. D/E F#/G A/B c#/d d/e f#/g etc. But again, if this were a good idea for squeezeboxes, I'm sure it would already be standard. 

I remember reading about someone, in Australia I think (Malcolm can you confirm this? Maybe you were the source of the story) who had a box (I think a C#/D) tuned D/E F#/G A/B d/e, using the c# on the outer row and was very excited about it but after x months hadn't managed to rewire his brain enough to play tunes on it... 

On the subject of octave tuning, I tried a friend's Castagnari C/F the other day, some discontinued model whose name I forget. Tiny little box, and the sound was verrrry low - one full tone below the octave D/Gs you are talking about. Wonderful deep sound that your body can really resonate with - bit like playing a cello instead of a fiddle.   

[Nick Hudis]

It seems to me that the melodeon world is divided into those who regard the instrument's limitations as an opportunity and those who regard them as a challenge!

Well, the club layout 2.5 row is just about my pipedream, but what about replacing that never used (in british trad music at least) B chord with a simple F# bass note.  Then you can play an entire G maj scale on the bass, fudge F# minor (give me a push C# somewhere! - now there is a pipedream), and play a  D chord with an F# bass).  I really like the F bass/chord on the Club, you get an interesting extra chord without more buttons.  Yes you have to juggle a bit if you want to play a G against a C chord/bass but it no harder than playing a G against an E minor bass/chord.

Other thought: replace the low  push D on the G row with an E so you get a bit more cross row potential.  You can easily cross to the D row for a push D. How often do actually use that low F# on the D row, maybe swop it for a push C#

Getting a bit far fetched now: a knob for each bass chord which will switch  between major, minor or bare 5th.  You could even do something on the treble side a bit like the semitone levers on a harp: switches which for any given note switch to a reed a semi tone up or down.  No more reaching for accidentals just set up the scale you want at the beginning of the tune and play up and down the row.  I could see this as a one row box.

A small compressed air cylinder inside the box connected to a big red button so if you find you've run out of air and there no where to use the air value, hit the red button.  Good for a sudden crescendo too!

[RoyFromGeorgia]

My B/C Accordion has 23 buttons, the extra two are on the low end.  Wouldn't it be more useful to have the extra button on the other end.  That would complete the second "D" octave.  I don't think that I have ever played either of the extra two, but I have wished that I had a High D..

Roy 

[rees]

You could even do something on the treble side a bit like the semitone levers on a harp: switches which for any given note switch to a reed a semi tone up or down.  No more reaching for accidentals just set up the scale you want at the beginning of the tune and play up and down the row.  I could see this as a one row box.

Castagnari once invented a melodeon called the Convertor. Two row box with a lever on the edge of the keyboard which raised the pitch of one row by a semi-tone. As far as I know they only ever made one (the prototype) but I did see it being played back in 1988. Same effect as a chromatic harmonica.
Now that could be interesting on a one-row.

[Malcolm Clapp]

I remember reading about someone, in Australia I think (Malcolm can you confirm this? Maybe you were the source of the story) who had a box (I think a C#/D) tuned D/E F#/G A/B d/e, using the c# on the outer row and was very excited about it but after x months hadn't managed to rewire his brain enough to play tunes on it... 

 

No, not me, though a good excuse to start cross rowing of necessity. (Why do many players seem afraid to cross row?)

In similar vein, since playing a little more non-declubbed  Club, I have got into the habit with a 2 row (say D/G) when playing in G of picking up the E note from the D row with my little finger, as if it had been a Club. Seems to fall really naturally.

I would go as far as to suggest that maybe the designer of the club system (a certain Herr Baldrick, no doubt) hatched a cunning plan to force players to start cross rowing from virtually lesson one by having the double action button???

But that's maybe for another forum and/or thread....

MC