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Author Topic: Refurbishing an old Hohner  (Read 58049 times)

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Pete Dunk

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Refurbishing an old Hohner
« on: May 13, 2008, 08:26:40 PM »

Rather than go off topic in other threads or start many new threads to ask random questions I thought I would start a single thread for queries and progress updates (progress will be slow!) on my quest to turn a tired old three voice box into something playable and hopefully pleasing to the ear.

The box is a Hohner, possibly a Corsa from the 1930's or 1940's but certainly elderly in any event. Three voice MMM in C/C# finished in grey/mauve celluloid which is in less than perfect condition; the plating has worn off the mis-shapen treble grille and the melodeon looks generally old and tired.

So far I've made a new cover for the bass end because the old one had started to come apart and had chunks missing and I'm now in the process of removing the old tapes from the bellows. This job is proving to be quite long winded as they were just paper with a shiny side rather than cloth backed so I'm having to tear the shiny bits off and then soak the backing paper before gently scraping it away. The bellows papers were either white or pale cream originally but now they are stained and unsightly, removing the edge tape isn't doing them any favours either so I'll have to recover them before re-taping. So the first question is about the metal corners, is it possible to remove them and if I did so would I ever get them back on again? They have tiny crease marks on them and I'm not sure if that's from bending the corner during manufacture or if they are crimped onto the bellows.

While working on the bellows and generally making the thing airtight I'm contemplating the reed work and how best to approach it. The box is generally well flat which suits me as I'm going to retune it to B/C, which brings up the subject of the basses. There are two layouts on the melodeon.net main site, one for modern Hohners and most other makes and the other a 'Modern' bass layout that seems to be quite odd. Are there any B/C players out there who can comment on the best bass layout?

That's probably enough to be going on with, please feel free to jump in with answers and suggestions, or just to poke fun.  ;)

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Theo

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2008, 09:42:06 PM »

Taking bellows corners off to replace them is not a fun job.  I'd do everything possible to avoid that particular task.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Pete Dunk

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2008, 11:16:49 PM »

Thanks for that Theo. Looks like many hours carefully trimming paper around the metal corners then, good job I'm blessed with infinite patience.  :(
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Bill Young

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2008, 11:53:19 PM »


The box is generally well flat which suits me as I'm going to retune it to B/C, which brings up the subject of the basses. There are two layouts on the melodeon.net main site, one for modern Hohners and most other makes and the other a 'Modern' bass layout that seems to be quite odd. Are there any B/C players out there who can comment on the best bass layout?

The one "for modern Hohners and most other makes" has been called the Paolo Soprani layout. The one labelled "Modern" is simply the Paolo Soprani layout with the duplicated inner row push "C"s changed to "D"s, which only makes sense if you started with the Paolo Soprani layout and wanted the cheapest way of getting "D"s on the push. From scratch, a more logical arrangement is the "Joe Burke" system, which groups the "D"s and "G"s more sensibly. See all of these on Han Speek's Bass Layouts on Irish Boxes.

I've had all three of these layouts, and the Joe Burke is the best for an 8-button layout. All are a poor substitute for a proper Stradella bass.
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2008, 07:37:44 PM »

Many thanks for your information Bill, I'll spend a bit of time studying the Joe Burke layout to see what's involved then I'll probably use this system, advice from an experienced player is invaluable.

Here's a pic of the new bass cover complete with rubber feet.


The treble end.


And the one that worries me, here are the bass end chord reeds and there doesn't seem to be any wax in the tiny gaps between them. Has this fallen out or was it never there - and if that's the case how does that work then? I have all of the bits to do away with the waxing and screw the reeds back in on leather gaskets but that doesn't seem possible with this set. ???


Larger (and extra) pictures are here
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 07:43:57 PM by tallship »
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an bosca ceoil

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2008, 10:38:37 PM »

Any wax "between" the chord reeds will be underneath, on top of the partitions. I think you will be hard pushed to substitute leather  because the walls are not thick enough for a nail or screw even if you were to reduce the width of the plate.
If you go for rewaxing I think the answer is to work fast, setting the plates one at a time onto the partitions while the wax is still fluid then float the ends down, unless anyone knows a better way?
Just out of interest - you call this  a Corso and I have seen them referred to as Pre Corsos elsewhere. I thought they were just a "Zweireihers so is this Hohners designation or just peoples way of describing them?
Regards,
Bruce
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2008, 11:59:37 PM »

Just out of interest - you call this  a Corso and I have seen them referred to as Pre Corsos elsewhere. I thought they were just a "Zweireihers so is this Hohners designation or just peoples way of describing them?
Regards,
Bruce
More likely it's just my mistake, I described this melodeon to someone who suggested it might possibly be a Corso. From the pics I've seen of Corsos your reference to pre-Corso might be correct. 'Zwerireihers' is a term I've not come across before and means nothing to me but as a newbie to accordions - button or otherwise - that's hardly surprising. Any info you can give to explain this term and expand my knowledge would be gratefully received.

As for waxing underneath the reeds, that's yet another technique I've not come across before. Ho-hum!
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Squeezing on the Isle of Oxney, UK
Primo (Serenellini) D/G
Isis D/G
Hohner B/E, G/C, C/F, Bb/Eb G/C/F
Liliputs D/G (G scale), C/F, Bb/Eb, Albrecht Custom D/G (G scale)

Theo

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2008, 12:09:49 AM »

"Zweireihers" just means two row.

 
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2008, 10:20:53 AM »

And the one that worries me, here are the bass end chord reeds and there doesn't seem to be any wax in the tiny gaps between them.

It is tricky waxing such closely spaced reeds.  I think you could screw these reeds down, but the screws would have to go at the end s of the reedplates, and you would need to ensure that the top edges of those thin chamber walls were nice and flat.

My technique for waxing closely spaced reedplates is:

  • start at one end
  • place the first plate
  • run a bead of wax round it finishing with the side where the next plate will go
  • before the wax has set place the next reed, pressing it into the melted wax
  • run a bead of wax along the free edge and repeat.
  • Finish by running wax along the tops and bases of the reeds

points to note:

too much wax will squeeze out and may obstruct the valve or reed on the lower side if the plate
not enough wax will leave air leaks
if you aren't quick enough to catch the wax still liquid the reedplate will not be secure
I don't bother with the nails.  I've seen plenty of old reedblocks where the wax had failed, but the reeds plates were still able to vibrate despite the presence of nails.

If wax gets onto reed tongues or anywhere else you don't want it let it get cold before attempting to remove it.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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an bosca ceoil

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2008, 01:24:18 PM »

.

It is tricky waxing such closely spaced reeds.  I think you could screw these reeds down, but the screws would have to go at the end s of the reedplates, and you would need to ensure that the top edges of those thin chamber walls were nice and flat.

.You made a better of explaining the waxing than I could have hoped to!
I cannot quite see how screws at the ends would be effective though.  Outer ends would not present a problem but how would you propose holding the "port" ends down?  I have seen Klingenthal blocks with a groove to hold this end but a retro modification would not be  as easy as the "arkward" rewaxing.
Anyway, once he has sussed the tricky blocks out the others will be a doddle?
Regards, Bruce
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rees

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2008, 03:01:43 PM »

Also, the Hohner blocks are softwood so the screws won't hold too well. Hardwood is the norm in reedblocks with the plates screwed down.
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2008, 03:10:57 PM »

Thanks for all of the feedback, everything has been noted and will be mulled over while I'm working on the bellows. Speaking of the bellows, everything about this part of the work is tedious beyond belief. I reckon it took about four and a half hours in total to strip off the old tapes and soak off the backing paper remnants. the folds are marked in numerous places when someone has touched up the damaged bits with paint.  >:(



Next bit of tedium is cutting strips for the new bellows papers, folding them and cutting the ends in a vee. work continues!

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Primo (Serenellini) D/G
Isis D/G
Hohner B/E, G/C, C/F, Bb/Eb G/C/F
Liliputs D/G (G scale), C/F, Bb/Eb, Albrecht Custom D/G (G scale)

Pete Dunk

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2008, 11:02:21 PM »

The papers have now been put on but it's hardly worth posting pictures. Starting work (hopefully) fitting the new bellows tapes tomorrow and I'll get pics up when the bellows are finished. After that I'll be re-facing the pallets and making any mechanical adjustments needed to key height/stroke. The buttons do seem to have quite a long travel and disappear well into the holes in the fingerboard, what's the best method of limiting key travel while leaving sufficient lift on the pallets for the reeds to sound properly?
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Squeezing on the Isle of Oxney, UK
Primo (Serenellini) D/G
Isis D/G
Hohner B/E, G/C, C/F, Bb/Eb G/C/F
Liliputs D/G (G scale), C/F, Bb/Eb, Albrecht Custom D/G (G scale)

an bosca ceoil

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2008, 11:30:16 PM »

Surely your instrument has a removable "plate" that reveals felt buffer strips under the buttons/levers? Chances are that it has worn through/compressed/fed the moths.Easy to replace with whatever thickness stops the button going through the plate. If this should result in insufficient pallet lift (unlikely) adjust the levers.
Regards, Bruce
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2008, 01:35:06 PM »

Yes, the keyboard cover plate is removable but I haven't delved inside yet. Thanks for the tips though Bruce, now filed away for future reference.

On the subject of the specific model name 'Corso' vs 'pre-Corso' I found this image on the net which is exactly like mine but in much finer condition. The gold motifs on the fingerboard have worn away although a faint outline is still visible. This melodeon was described by the vendor as a 'pre-Corso'

Pete.

Edit: The link to this image broke a long time ago and I've been unable to find a suitable replacement, sorry!
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 11:49:25 PM by Pete Dunk »
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Primo (Serenellini) D/G
Isis D/G
Hohner B/E, G/C, C/F, Bb/Eb G/C/F
Liliputs D/G (G scale), C/F, Bb/Eb, Albrecht Custom D/G (G scale)

an bosca ceoil

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2008, 11:07:21 PM »

I was not disputing the aptness of the term "pre Corso"! That, and "pre Corona" are widely used but I just wondered if Hohner  themselves had ever described these Old Timers as Corso/Corona. (If I can add the link, there is a page that might interest you  and which suggests not, but who cares! http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/gilbert27/vpost?id=886286&trail=
Just as Corso, Corona and even the defunct Double Ray DeLuxe shared a lot of components I think the early ones did as well - I suspect the gold embellishments you mention were to fill space on a keyboard capable of  holding three rows?
Regards, Bruce
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2008, 06:08:03 PM »

I suspect the gold embellishments you mention were to fill space on a keyboard capable of  holding three rows?
Regards, Bruce
Very possibly, there's certainly enough room.  :D

The bellows should be finished by the weekend; the front and top runs are now done, just the back and bottom to go. I have to say the papers look much brighter in the pics than they actually are. They're almost navy blue in real life.



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Squeezing on the Isle of Oxney, UK
Primo (Serenellini) D/G
Isis D/G
Hohner B/E, G/C, C/F, Bb/Eb G/C/F
Liliputs D/G (G scale), C/F, Bb/Eb, Albrecht Custom D/G (G scale)

Pete Dunk

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2008, 07:06:42 PM »

Here's a pic of the paper I used, if you've never had blue snakeskin bellows you haven't lived!

Edit: Once again the image I linked to has been deleted from the website, enlarging the picture of the cut strips a few posts above gives you a good idea of the pattern anyway.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 12:14:49 PM by Pete Dunk »
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Primo (Serenellini) D/G
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Hohner B/E, G/C, C/F, Bb/Eb G/C/F
Liliputs D/G (G scale), C/F, Bb/Eb, Albrecht Custom D/G (G scale)

Theo

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2008, 09:12:45 PM »

So if you hear a hissing noise its not necessarily an air leak :D
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Pete Dunk

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Re: Refurbishing an old Hohner
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2008, 08:18:54 PM »

So if you hear a hissing noise its not necessarily an air leak :D
:P

Bellows sorted. I'm amazed at how much better the compression is.








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Squeezing on the Isle of Oxney, UK
Primo (Serenellini) D/G
Isis D/G
Hohner B/E, G/C, C/F, Bb/Eb G/C/F
Liliputs D/G (G scale), C/F, Bb/Eb, Albrecht Custom D/G (G scale)
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