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Author Topic: Single row boxes - why harder?  (Read 11773 times)

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strad

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2010, 12:09:52 PM »

Any instrument, even a comb and paper, needs skill to be played well. That skill comes through countless hours of playing and listening to what you're doing. From years of playing the fiddle I have any number of tunes in the fingers of my left hand. Now I'm trying to send these tunes through to my right hand. The trouble is that my brain is in the way so I'm looking for a brain bypass to help me with my button box playing. But the biggest help I've found is to use a recording device so I can listen to yesterday's practice. That lift which good players have I hear in the occasional phrase so I hope I'll live long enough to get more of it!

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« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 12:14:50 PM by strad »
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ladydetemps

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2010, 01:30:15 PM »

aww, thanks Lester. :)

Ebor_fiddler

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2010, 07:41:48 PM »

I have no trouble in passing the notes from right hand to left. My trouble is trying to get the left hand to realise it still has to do work!  >:( :( ;D :||:
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forrest

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2010, 05:18:12 AM »

    To just play, it's easy enough to pick out some notes and string them together into a recognizable melody, but I do think a one row is more difficult to operate as far as making tunes listenable and interesting.
  As DTN said, one must develop a rhythmic style, and every note must count: there's nowhere to hide a misplaced note or beat. It's like poetry. It's physically more demanding too. I think it's also a practice of using less to make more, given the limited notes at hand. This is especially true of a 4-stopper, where you must imply the idea of a fourth chord where none exists. Of course if you're playing a one-row Vienna style box, your halfway there.
 I have had a 4-stop for a bit over a year now, and I'm just beginning to come to terms with it. I quite enjoy it and find that it also serves as great technical cross-training that will help my  multi-row box playing as well.           :||: :Ph :||:

Edited to add: LDT....you rock on the one-row!
« Last Edit: November 21, 2010, 06:34:32 AM by j.w.forrest »
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malcolmbebb

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2010, 09:08:05 AM »

. Of course if you're playing a one-row Vienna style box, your halfway there.
That's comforting...

Edited to add: LDT....you rock on the one-row!
Hmm - gonna have to get in touch with LDT to talk about some commission here...
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ladydetemps

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2010, 10:34:08 AM »

@j.w. Thanks. @Malcolm. Check out my vids and recordings. They are on youtube and onmvoice, links can be found in my 'signature'.

melod-ian

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2010, 04:53:47 PM »

When i play my 1 row ... its output is enhanced by the years i've spent deliberately developing a rhythmic way of playing! ..... If i hand over my Castagnari Max to a lot of 2 row players of the standard stuff  ... it really does sound a bit crap!.... you can't hide the sound ability on a 1 row!

It really has its own skills and is just as difficult to master properly as any other 2 or 3 row! (as in Bobby Gardiner)

Some are more suited to the 1 row style too ... In fact LDT really plays a great 1 row sound and should develop the skill!

DTN

agreed, when i first turned to a 1 row box i found it very limiting compared to a 2 row box.. apart from the obvious..you cant cross rows, you cant make interesting bass lines up etc.but also, found i was ruining out of air too often.

but i've been able to develop a much more rhythmic way of playing with the 1 row, especially with the right hand.. so i've been able to translate over to a 2 row playing ... and never looked back   
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Andy in Vermont

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2010, 11:40:01 AM »

hI, for my pennysworth I would say that the one row is easy enough for simple tunes or basic versions but to play it well takes a great deal of skill because you do not have all the notes and good use of the air button is essential. You have to be a great improviser to get [round the corners],and a good sense of rhythm.

I would say exactly the same is true of a two row!  

All very, very true.  It is certainly the case that the one-row is a different animal, but both one-row and multi-row boxes are a challenge to play well.  There is a kind of oomph that a dyed-in-the-wool one-row player will develop, and I would argue that this transfers very nicely to the two-(or three-) row as well -- on which you will have to learn some additional skills that don't transfer to the single-row boxes, like cross-rowing (non-existent on one-row) and bass/chord accompaniment (much more limited on the single-row boxes).  Still, if you learn the note pattern on one of the rows of a two-row box, you are one step ahead when acquiring skills on a one-row box.  In other words: they are different instruments, but each has something to contribute when you learn the other.
Some of the above posts discuss how the one-row box differs from the two-row box, but this does not really make it more difficult, at least not in the sense that would make it clear that beginners should avoid starting on a one-row box, although I have heard that advice before, mostly from people who started on the two-row.  The business about switching out notes where they are missing is relatively simple, albeit challenging in execution, but then again, picking out bellows directions or chords can be challenging on a multi-row box.
It reminds me of a refrain that has often irritated me as a language teacher and linguist.  People talk about one language being "harder" than another, i.e. "Oh, Thai, that is a really hard language."  I suppose that they might advise Thai children to learn a "simpler" language first!  >:E  The fact is, even people of average intelligence learn to converse in these "hard" languages.  There are features that make each language (i.e. kind of accordion) different from the rest (of course!), and this presents some challenge in switching from one to the next, but there are also almost always features that are transferrable from one to the next!
-Andy, whose first box "language" is the one-row

hogstonp

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2010, 12:04:07 PM »

... and here's Bobby Gardiner in full glow

Steve

Do you know what the tunes are?
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Anahata

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2010, 12:35:39 PM »

One feature of one-row playing that hasn't been mentioned much yet is RH chords and harmony.
Of course you can also do that on a two-row, but there's less need for it because you have some ready-made on the left. On a 1 row you can make chords which you wouldn't otherwise have at all, so it's a very useful thing to be able to do.

I use 1-row melodeons mostly for song accompaniment (Mary loves the sound) and RH harmonies plus the number of reeds sounding at different octaves combine to give a wonderful richness to the sound. I often don't play chords as such; it's more like a harmony part in 3rd or 6ths with the tune, or I'll play a harmony only. For songs what this boils down to is that half the time I'm not playing the tune at all, I'm mostly playing two notes at a time on the RH, I'm adding bass notes and/or chords where they fit, and all the time I'm choosing whatever fits best.

For dance music, it's a bit different. We sometimes play ceilidhs as a duo of melodeon + piano, and then the piano is providing all the rhythmic and harmonic backing you want and you can just concentrate on the tune, using occasional extra notes and basses for embellishment, rhythmic emphasis and texture. In that context, switching between two row two-voice D/G and 1-row 4 voice in C creates a great variety of textures and keys too.
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Stiamh

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2010, 01:42:11 PM »

... and here's Bobby Gardiner in full glow
Do you know what the tunes are?

The hornpipe is The North Shore, the jig Scatter the Mud. I don't recognise the reel.

Rob2Hook

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2010, 01:07:44 PM »

It reminds me of a refrain that has often irritated me as a language teacher and linguist.  People talk about one language being "harder" than another, i.e. "Oh, Thai, that is a really hard language."  I suppose that they might advise Thai children to learn a "simpler" language first!  >:E  The fact is, even people of average intelligence learn to converse in these "hard" languages.  There are features that make each language (i.e. kind of accordion) different from the rest (of course!), and this presents some challenge in switching from one to the next, but there are also almost always features that are transferrable from one to the next!
-Andy, whose first box "language" is the one-row

I wonder... ?  I simply don't seem to be able to play the one-row style that DTN does.  I can't play blues or folk DADGBD on my guitar like I want.  Maybe if I'd been born in another country I would be an orator in their language rather than stumbling in English?  Certainly an aptitude in one style doesn't gaurantee any capability in another.


Rob.
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Stiamh

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2010, 01:51:43 PM »

I wonder... ?  I simply don't seem to be able to play the one-row style that DTN does. 

I wonder how long you have spent trying.

A couple of years ago I decided I ought to learn one-row Québécois style and acquired a four-stop. I found it very different, much harder than expected, and gave up - simply because I realized I wasn't prepared to put the time into the project that it demanded. Which is not to say that I think I couldn't have done it.

To reinterpret Andy's analogy, knowing one language gives you a basis for learning another. (And having learned one foreign language makes acquiring a second one much easier.) But you can't learn to speak another language well without making considerable, sustained effort.

Andy in Vermont

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2010, 04:39:00 PM »

But you can't learn to speak another language well without making considerable, sustained effort.

Absolutely true!

Accordion Dave

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder? .
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2010, 01:53:19 AM »

I have been playing the 120-bass piano accordion for most of my half century of life.

I only recently began playing with diatonic button accordions.

My most recent purchase is a one-row Hohner HA-1140. It sounds great and I am having a lot of fun learning tunes. I can't cheat by borrowing notes from another row because there is only one row. I have to change bellows direction instead.

This bisonoric thing was totally foreign to me at first.
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Québécois

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2010, 03:05:34 PM »

But you can't learn to speak another language well without making considerable, sustained effort.
Hmmm.. depends which language(s) you know, and which language you're trying to learn! Some are farther apart than others.
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Christopher K.

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2010, 10:05:41 PM »

But you can't learn to speak another language well without making considerable, sustained effort.
Hmmm.. depends which language(s) you know, and which language you're trying to learn! Some are farther apart than others.
.

Then there is the Englishman Daniel Tammet, who is somewhat of a savant for learning languages. I remember him being interviewed fluently in either Icelandic or Faroese, which he successfully learned in a week
 

Stiamh

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2010, 02:23:54 PM »

But you can't learn to speak another language well without making considerable, sustained effort.
Hmmm.. depends which language(s) you know, and which language you're trying to learn! Some are farther apart than others.

Of course, François, but it also depends on what you mean by "well".

Would you agree that someone who plays an instrument well makes few mistakes? Well there are loads of people around here who seem to think they can speak the other language well - but make very basic mistakes every time they open their mouths.

Theo

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2010, 02:40:34 PM »

but make very basic mistakes every time they open their mouths.

Including native speakers!

Interesting question though - what do we mean by playing "well".   I guess the answer will be different depending on who you ask.  For me a few wrong notes are not that important.  John Kirkpatrick plays the occasional bum note, and makes a feature of it,  likewise Ali Anderson,  but I think most would agree they play well!
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David J

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Re: Single row boxes - why harder?
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2010, 02:05:58 PM »

Quote
This bisonoric thing was totally foreign to me at first.

Having just got myself a piano accordion again I'm finding it hard to stop myself reversing the bellows unnecessarily.

But back on topic, one of the good things that playing a 1-row does is making you use the top octave, mainly because so many tunes have a 'diddle-ee dum' climb up from the dominant (V) note to the tonic (I) note in the tune, and you are missing one of these notes at the bottom of the 1-row keyboard. So it's good practice.

Also I find that playing my G Hohner with all 4 stops out in my morris band is a very good way of making the drummer move further away . . . .
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