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Author Topic: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?  (Read 9886 times)

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Andrew Culwell

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2010, 05:55:38 PM »

Ah well...then nothing to do but move forward with restoration.  It is over 75 years old after all!
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 06:01:34 PM by A.J. Culwell »
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Hohner's, Paolo Soprani red 4 voice, Paddy Clancy Celtic

an bosca ceoil

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2010, 06:16:50 PM »

Look on the positive side, at least the vendors poor packaging has saved you the problem of getting the blocks unglued (:)
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Andrew Culwell

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2010, 06:21:23 PM »

That's a glass half full!  What worries me is that the glue holding the thing together might be crystallized and so dried out that the whole box needs a re-glue.  It really is a pretty box.  I just think it deserves to be restored and played for that historical sound!
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Owen Woods

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2010, 01:43:26 AM »

According to the listing " a seam in the wooden face had opened up 1/16" behind pallet 6 " - so it was mentioned.

Are you sure?  The description mentions "There is a seam on the wooden face that is opened a 1/16 " under the 6th pad from the left"  which you can just about see because it goes through the R of Steel Reeds above the 6th pallet

Haha, this is what comes of not reading the description :P Apologies, yes, it was mentioned. It does seem to have opened up though, whether this is because of dodgy packaging or not I don't know. Would it be difficult to fix Theo?
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Theo

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2010, 09:28:05 AM »

Always tricky to fix what appears to be  shrinkage crack in a thin panel of solid timber.   If this was furniture the panel would not be fixed with glue thus allowing movement to continue as a result of seasonal changes in humidity.  Clearly that would lead to an instrument that is not airtight.  Replace the panel with ply?  Very unsatisfactory on an otherwise original piece.   One approach worth considering would be to fill the crack, and apply a veneer over the entire inside surface, with the grain running at right angles.  In order to get the lettering looking right the frame should be removed , and the crack closed up,  when the panel could perhaps be fixed with a flexible glue??? Its certainly not as simple as it looks. You could just fill the crack and hope for the best.   :o
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Mike Averill

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2010, 03:41:40 PM »

seal the cracked piece in a plastic bag with some fresh orange peel. Leave for a week or two.

I've used this technique with cracked woodwind instrument joints with sucess - Im sure it will work with other instrements as long as they are wooden.
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oggiesnr

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2010, 06:43:28 PM »

On a guitar or similar, the approach would probably be to clean the crack up and chamfer it and insert a wedge shaped fillet which is then sanded flush.  Then refinish as required.

Steve
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Theo

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2010, 08:01:19 PM »

Yes that would be the simplest.  Downside would be that the lettering would end up disrupted.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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RGF

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2010, 11:06:45 PM »

Sounds like a dreadful lot of work, but........could one add material at the ends of the panel rather than at the break?

Rather than trying to fill the gap, could the panel be removed from the frame and the two pieces edge-glued back together, thus maintaing the lettering? (Or at least rendering it restorable by a paintings conservator or someone with similar skills.) Then, if needed, perhaps a tiny filler strip could be edge-glued at one or both ends to restore the length. With luck, those might disappear into the frame rabbet, or -- if not -- at least it might be preferable to paint at the ends of the panel, rather than across the lettering.

Just bouncing ideas. Hope I've worded it in an understandable way!

Bob
Bob
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Andrew Culwell

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2010, 11:34:08 PM »

I've been consulting with some experts via email, some members of this forum about this box.  One thought is that the reason the melodeon never got played was that the box was damaged early on.  His theory being that the box was probably dropped soon after purchase or before purchase resulting in  the damage seen and either a return to the retailer or simply placed in a closet and left there to moulder.

  I've also considered just taking the best parts of the OBDW box and combining it with my Globe that is in similar condition but the bellows and keyboard on the OBDW are in fine condition.  I know makes for a very expensive bellows replacement.  But the alternative seems to be two classic old Melodeons both in need of a lot of work.  Why not cut my losses and combine the best of both?  Short of finding someone else to buy the OBDW I don't think I'm going to regain my initial investment. 
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pgroff

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2010, 12:18:29 AM »

Hey Drew,

My speculation was actually that this accordion developed a serious shrinkage crack in the soundboard early on, that made it not play properly and probably loosened the reedblocks (possibly before it was ever sold) .... not from being dropped, but from dry conditions. Maybe because the piece of wood used for that plate was unstable or too green, or maybe the accordion was left too near a stove or in direct sun in a shop window....  The method of construction of these Internationals does demand a lot from a piece of wood, and although I have seen a good few without cracks, many did crack.  Just like the tops of guitars. The one you just purchased most likely cracked before it could be purchased, or soon after, and I think that is why it was put away for 85 years unplayed.

Over the years I have seen a lot of "near mint, never played" instruments of many kinds, and they can have a lot of great information in them since they are so original -- but sometimes as likely in this case there may be a good reason they weren't played.  Some of the best old instruments are the really worn ones, that may have been chosen by serious players as the best sounding or best playing instruments when new, and that were played hard for decades or more!

PG

« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 12:21:02 AM by pgroff »
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Andrew Culwell

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2010, 12:53:45 AM »

Paul thanks for clarifying.  I see your point about the near mint condition and it's relationship to early damage.  I've been looking at my photo's of the GLobe and OBDW and the more I think about it the more I think my options are limited by lack of know how and the amount of work involved in the OBDW restore.  I Could take the guts out of the Globe but then the Sound Board Crack is still an issue.  That Globe is solid w/ the exception of patina and bellows it's soundboard, reed blocks are in superb condition. My choice is to keep the OBDW together for it's historical value and allow it to languish on the shelf, trade it or sell it (at a loss) or use the combined parts to make one heck of a nice playable semi-historical Melodeon.  At this point I see no reason in taking a total loss on the box.  As I said in my email to you I'm leaning more towards attaching the best parts of both boxes together to make one very nice box.  I feel crummy though about taking apart that OBDW box.  But it's a crime that it should sit on a shelf as a curiosity and decoration.
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pgroff

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2010, 01:36:29 AM »

Hi Drew,

I agree with Theo and others that the O'Byrne DeWitt International should be very repairable.  It's just a tricky job that will need some thought and skill. 

PG
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 01:38:13 AM by pgroff »
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RGF

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2010, 03:38:56 AM »

Drew,

Having read the thread thus far, I would suggest that maybe you not rush into anything too immediately. Put it someplace safe (in a good climate), enjoy the holidays, and just move away for a bit. Give it some extended consideration before doing anything at all. Things will not get any worse in the interim....give yourself some space, and then come back to it.

Bob
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Andrew Culwell

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2010, 04:09:55 AM »

Good advice Bob.  Having spent far too much on the box already and having some other costly projects in the offing the box will sit on my shelf for the next 6 months anyway. You know how it is when something is exciting and new!  I won't be taking any hasty action.  Just throwing ideas out there.  It looks awful good on the shelf anyway!
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Andy in Vermont

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2010, 06:40:54 AM »

    Just throwing ideas out there.

Any chance of just returning it for a refund?  I mean, it certainly wasn't delivered in the condition indicated in the auction.  Did you use a credit card? Sometimes credit cards offer to remedy the situation.  The box, as delivered, was not playable as a musical instrument, and a "decoration box" surely should not cost that much!

blafleur

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2010, 03:29:00 PM »

Pretty box.  If it were mine I'd try to make it playable, too good a shape otherwise not to.  I agree with Theo's suggestion to lay a veneer backing in the inside of the faceplate.  First I'd close the 2 gaps, and I'd use thin aircraft plywood.  Keep in mind that if you do that, the slides will need to be reset for the thicker faceplate.  The problem I'd be worried about in just fixing the cracks is that if those developed, after you fixed them and starting playing it, it's very likely others would develop in other spots.  In furniture making it's rarely advisable to glue plywood to solid wood, but in this case with such a thin and small piece, I wouldn't anticipate it being a problem, but that's just an opinion.

Also looks like it needs a new backing plate (that the reed blocks are attached to), it's missing some pieces between the standup blocks.  Maybe that one could be repaired, but not sure without seeing it up close.

Hows the base side look?

Andrew Culwell

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Re: 4 stop Irish single row eBay purchase?
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2010, 02:14:17 AM »

The Bass side reeds are intact and the growl box seems to be in pretty good condition.  I took this picture before I left for home in California it simply shows the shape of the bass side.  Interior seems to be intact exterior is as you see.
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Hohner's, Paolo Soprani red 4 voice, Paddy Clancy Celtic
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