Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Copyright Etiquette for Posts  (Read 2429 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

docEdock

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 390
  • Hohners, Gaillards, Castagnaris
    • LoafingAboard
Copyright Etiquette for Posts
« on: December 18, 2010, 12:31:59 PM »

Can someone point me to a discussion of what is permitted when posting references to copyrighted material on a forum like melodeon.net.  I'm interested because in asking a question about Pignol and Millerete's book http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,5626.0.html. I posted snippets of a page and a bit of an audio file for which they own the copyright. Unacceptable or permitted use?

Also, I noticed that when Ashokan Farewell was a TOTM, some but not all YouTube posts included, "used by permission . . ." When is this appropriate rather than simply citing the author? I understand that copyright in the digital age is a minefield and I'm hoping to avoid self-destructing.
Logged
How difficult can it be?
http://loafingaboard.blogspot.com/

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10171
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: Copyright Etiquette for Posts
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2010, 01:11:26 PM »

Part of chapter quotes are considered 'fair usage' and I believe short snippets of music to illustrate points are the same.   Whole chapters of books, 'most of an article' is usually over the fair usage watershed.

I have in the past put some Pignol/Milleret tracks on my webspace and actually decided I should email to discuss only this morning. But when I link to them I always link to the mustradem site with appeal to try/buy the CD. Several people here have done this I know- so its raising new business for them.

They do have entire tracks on their own pages but it's awkward to link to them, and these may illustrate the wrong point! Furthermore Norbert quotes a famous John Cage piece in full  ;) on his album 'Silence' (page)

http://boutique.mustradem.com/player.php?track=lesRailsDuDestin.mp3&path=data/mp3/ (Flash track - PRESS PLAY)
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 

Steve_freereeder

  • Content Manager
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7511
  • MAD is inevitable. Keep Calm and Carry On
    • Lizzie Dripping
Re: Copyright Etiquette for Posts
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2010, 01:24:55 PM »

Can someone point me to a discussion of what is permitted when posting references to copyrighted material on a forum like melodeon.net.  I'm interested because in asking a question about Pignol and Millerete's book http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,5626.0.html. I posted snippets of a page and a bit of an audio file for which they own the copyright. Unacceptable or permitted use?

Also, I noticed that when Ashokan Farewell was a TOTM, some but not all YouTube posts included, "used by permission . . ." When is this appropriate rather than simply citing the author? I understand that copyright in the digital age is a minefield and I'm hoping to avoid self-destructing.

I often have to deal with this issue in my work as a university lecturer.
In the case of Ashokan Farewell for tune of the month, Clive Williams obtained permission from the composer in advance. See here:

I've just got an email from Jay giving his permission for us to use his tune. He asks that we include the following wording on our postings on youtube or wherever:

ASHOKAN FAREWELL by Jay Ungar
Used by permission. All rights reserved.



For all other cases of using copyrighted material, it is best to merely post a link to the relevant on-line source, if available. Otherwise it is definitely illegal to make copies of copyright material and to post them in an on-line environment (such as this forum), without the written permission of both the author and copyright holder (not necessarily one and the same). Infringements could result in prosecution and a hefty fine, and would probably result in the closure of this website.

In your query here.......
I've attached a bit of the sheet music, an audio file and, for fun, a sound spectrum showing that the second beat actually is higher in volume. Since this is copyright protected material I only posted snippets. If even that is problematic someone please speak up and I'll remove them.
...... strictly speaking you are probably infringing copyright. In this case, the copyright will be protecting the printed material on the page and will belong to the publisher of the material. Unless you have obtained permission from the publisher to do this, you will be infringing copyright, even by posting a small snippet. However, as you have posted such a small fragment with the clear intention of educational, clarification, purposes, and not with intent to defraud or deprive the copyright holder of any revenue by so doing, it is very unlikely that a draconian interpretation of the law would ensue. The worst that could probably happen is that you would be asked to remove it, but don't bank on any such leniency.

Ultimately, this site belongs to Theo, and he has the final say of what is and is not acceptable to post here.
Logged
Steve
Sheffield, UK.
www.lizziedripping.org.uk

docEdock

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 390
  • Hohners, Gaillards, Castagnaris
    • LoafingAboard
Re: Copyright Etiquette for Posts
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2010, 11:09:28 AM »

Thanks for the advice. I'm thinking that the risk of stepping a mine increases in this order: quoting text with attribution or posting a link: absolutely safe, posting a snippet of sheet music or a music file: might blow up, posting a scanned page of music or an entire recording: kablooee.

In the states, posting a snippet of sheet music or sound file conjunction with a question about technique on a forum like this would fall under fair use http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html but that's the US and does not apply. It would be terrific to be able to ask for very specific advice, supported with audio and music examples. Describing a sound just isn't the same.

To Theo Gibb and Clive Williams, guidance?
Logged
How difficult can it be?
http://loafingaboard.blogspot.com/

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13729
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: Copyright Etiquette for Posts
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2010, 11:24:26 AM »

I don't have a definitive answer on this, except to use a bit of common sense.  I do know from my time as a teacher that the uk copyright licencing regime does allow copying of small parts of books and periodicals,  but printed music notation was specifically excluded,  even from copying small excerpts.  So it's best not to reproduce any parts from published sheet music. Reproducing published recorded music is also a no go area. 
Logged
Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

Proprietor of The Box Place for melodeon and concertina sales and service.
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook for stock updates.

docEdock

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 390
  • Hohners, Gaillards, Castagnaris
    • LoafingAboard
Re: Copyright Etiquette for Posts
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2010, 02:12:11 PM »

Thanks for the information. I'll adjust my posts and proceed under those rules.
Logged
How difficult can it be?
http://loafingaboard.blogspot.com/

Kautilya

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 977
Re: Copyright Etiquette for Posts
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2010, 12:17:51 AM »

Can someone point me to a discussion of what is permitted when posting references to copyrighted material on a forum like melodeon.net.

A minefield indeed.
(Bearing in mind out-of-copyright material is quite a separate discussion).
If the notes below are boring, do ignore them!

Taking note of responses made already to your query, it may be useful to know that teachers and lecturers are only covered because their institutions have to pay a substantial annual licence for photocopying parts of this and that for course notes. Electronic scanning fits there too.  

Someone running a course outside that CLA framework and handing out copies of in copyright materials would be liable unless they had such a licence. Nor would they be likely to get away with copying the actual modern versions of out of copyright material – the ‘new’ format (as opposed to the content, notes or text)  belonging to the owner of the format.
http://www.cla.co.uk/licences/licences_available/he/

 Schools, particularly, have been caught out with cupboards full of photocopied books (in some instances found by the authors of those books when visiting schools to give talks).  The school’s aim being to avoid paying for the cost of buying the actual book. Ignorance is not bliss nor a way out of a fine if someone comes after you).
See para 4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publishers_Licensing_Society

The regime is getting tighter as more (big) litigants seek to generate revenue from infringements.  

You will also find corporate litigants chasing some people for use of words and phrases from songs.  Permission is regularly refused by corporate rights holders to even mention a few words or a catchline from songs such as Penny Lane, for example in tourist articles about Liverpool. That kind of control is not recent. It has been around for at least a decade or two (to my knowledge).

There was some recent info here
http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,5443.0.html
and although it may refer to aggregators, the judgement (and next judgement due) have much wider implications and are pertinent to the specific question you asked. Downloading, scanning, photocopying, posting and or linking are all part of the same package.

And just 12 months ago to the day (Dec 21 09).

Google was fined Euros 300,000 for  putting up extracts of books (and euro 10,000  a day till it took down the material) by the French courts in a case brought against googlebooks by Lamartiniere, backed by the French publishers' association (Syndicat National de l’Edition, SNE) and the French authors' society (Société des Gens de Lettres, SDGL). .
Google appealed. It has since managed to persuade the courts that it did not have to print a full apology and details of the fine on the web, but only put a link to it!
Theo is right about common sense on this issue. Yet one should be aware, and beware of the fact that there are lawyers out there ready and willing to pursue even little people who are the easiest to pick off.

Generally authors are happy to say yes to amateur and similar requests, but often authors have signed over their print and digital rights to publishers and their bean counters. At one cent each, for reproduction rights across the Web, a million beans a day can make a nice little revenue stream by the  year end.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 12:21:27 AM by Kautilya »
Logged

Kautilya

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 977
Re: Copyright Etiquette for Posts
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2010, 01:04:42 AM »


Can someone point me to a discussion of what is permitted when posting references to copyrighted material on a forum like melodeon.net.

I understand some French govt controls (fromHADOPI - La haute autorite pour la diffusion des oeuvres  et la protection des droits sur l'internet) coming in  on downloading and copyright may affect members with holiday homes in France. Seems owner of PC and connection may be regarded as liable for any infringements even it was a visitor....... Any of our French members have more info on this?
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 04:47:40 PM by Kautilya »
Logged

docEdock

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 390
  • Hohners, Gaillards, Castagnaris
    • LoafingAboard
Re: Copyright Etiquette for Posts
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2010, 01:03:50 PM »

I have in the past put some Pignol/Milleret tracks on my webspace and actually decided I should email to discuss only this morning.

Chris, any response from Pignol/Milleret that you can share? I'm considering whether to ask for permission to post snippets from their books and audio files, in conjunction with my questions.
Logged
How difficult can it be?
http://loafingaboard.blogspot.com/
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal