Topic: Tendonitus or 'Learning Pains'? (Read 8862 times)

Theo · « **Reply #20 on:** January 08, 2011, 11:50:44 AM »

I've recently had some pain in my right arm which seems to get worse after an evening of playing. My local hospital has a lot of self help material on its Musculoskeletal Physiotherapy Service, including these videos which might be helpful, and one at least is quite amusing. Warning - the 'wrist' vid is actually about the ankle.

Québécois · « **Reply #21 on:** January 08, 2011, 02:10:51 PM »

I guess one should do some warming-up exercises before playing, since playing melodeon is a fairly demanding activity! Same as any other sports activity.

Lester · « **Reply #22 on:** January 08, 2011, 03:09:59 PM »

Quote from: Québécois on January 08, 2011, 02:10:51 PM

I guess one should do some warming-up exercises before playing, since playing melodeon is a fairly demanding activity! Same as any other sports activity.

Tim van Eyken has always taught warming up exercises (stretches etc) at the start of his workshops that I have attended.

Thrupenny Bit · « **Reply #23 on:** January 08, 2011, 03:35:16 PM »

Thanks Theo, I'll work my way through those clips.

In general, well, yes I suppose a melodeon is fairly 'active' but.... I saw a programme over the holidays that followed Nigel Kennedy around for a day. It included him rehursing the string section for the evening's concert. Vivaldi's Seasons reduced their arms to a complete blur. Stunning! Then Nigel said even on a poor day he practises for ~3hours plus.
I know they have been doing it all their lives, but the amount of movement encountered in their arms for a couple of minutes would be equivalent to a very long melodeon practise. It made me wonder what was going on with my arms.
Perhaps warming up will help too.

Lester - any brief tips on a warm up routine?
( hope it doesn't involve lycra...........

)

Thanks for all the collective thoughts, it is much appreciated.
cheers
Q

Lester · « **Reply #24 on:** January 08, 2011, 03:46:28 PM »

Quote from: Thrupenny Bit on January 08, 2011, 03:35:16 PM

Lester - any brief tips on a warm up routine?

Q

Sadly, as I am a BLOKE, I of course took no notice as warming up is for wusses.

Thrupenny Bit · « **Reply #25 on:** January 08, 2011, 05:53:34 PM »

Well...... you might have a point!
There was a news story run a few years back that sports scientists discovered that warming up did absolutely no good, and did not help prevent injuries as always assumed.
As our morris side then always warmed up this caused weeks and weeks of debate, in between running around and generally getting a sweat on prior to practise.
Funnily enough after all the discussions, few of us now warm up anymore!

Obviously as ever, Lester, you're way ahead of the pack . ....hard too, obviously

Q
( slightly trembling and in awe )

george garside · « **Reply #26 on:** January 08, 2011, 08:19:01 PM »

like Lester I could never quite see the point of 'warming up exercises' . The first couple of tunes seem to do the job perfectly well. However for those who feel they feel better for doing such things a few scales the full length of the keyboard should do the trick nicely!

george

Thrupenny Bit · « **Reply #27 on:** January 08, 2011, 10:10:11 PM »

I do try and run up and down both rows to the end 'Where Be Dragons' and back again.
Inevitably there's at least two tunes that then get a quick run through simply because in my mind I'm making the brain realies there's something it needs to make work in the hand.
After that it's off into the unknown!
( or now 'Hardcore Englidh' as it's also known

)
Q

malcolmbebb · « **Reply #28 on:** January 09, 2011, 12:06:51 AM »

Oh dear I must be a wuss...
Following long term left Achilles/calf injuries I always try to warm my legs up before dancing or practice. Being well over weight doesn't help. I have found that not doing it increases my chances of a painful leg next day.
However, most "warming up" exercises that I've had inflicted on me have been a joke.

The reason for the injury - common in blokes my age starting to do something a bit more energetic than they're used to - was given as "not warming up".

I don't really know how to warm my hands and fingers up. I doubt hopping up and down on them will help much. However, it needs to be something to make them really feel that they've done something, then a rest, then some more - but not enough to tire them out. Or so my legs say.

Ironically in the light of some other comments, I wrecked my hands and wrists on computer keyboards having learnt to nearly touch type while spending five years producing tech manuals. What really helped recover was learning to play a music style keyboard (OK, nearly learning, but it was the exercise wot dunn it).

george garside · « **Reply #29 on:** January 09, 2011, 09:36:38 AM »

I don't really know how to warm my hands and fingers up. I doubt hopping up and down on them will help much. However, it needs to be something to make them really feel that they've done something, then a rest, then some more - but not enough to tire them out. Or so my legs say.

).
[/quote]

something on the lines of a tune or two - put kettle on - a tune - brew tea - a tune - go for a pee , warm hands on tea- a tune etc etc- should at least ensure there is no lasting damaage

george

Thrupenny Bit · « **Reply #30 on:** January 09, 2011, 02:17:36 PM »

It is starting to become a mantra isn't it - " Little and often....."
It was mentioned a few times recently on another thread when discussing 'how to learn' and a few quick goes is better than one long practise. It seems to work for me when learning because I have to remember the tune each time from scratch so somehow impressing the tune into the brain.
As George hints, it's perhaps also better on the arms and hands too as it's not a continuous set of movements without a break.
The similarities with computer keyboard work are also there, as again you shouldn't keep going, but take a regular break and come back to the work.

Another thing currently preventing me from practising too much are daughters who need to revise for exams.
Something along the lines of " Argggghh....NOOOOOO. I've got to work....."
Never known one of them work so hard and only seems to want to start if I want to practise

hey ho.
Despite me munching at the bit wanting to play, I suppose the positive thing is it's making her work more, and resting me a little!
hey ho funny ol' life!
Q

strad · « **Reply #31 on:** January 09, 2011, 03:48:23 PM »

Something I found by chance -- I had a strain in one of my leg muscles and tried regular applications of Ibugel to ease the anguish. The next time I played a musical instrment my fingers felt remarkably supple due to repeated 'gel treatment. I've tried this since if I'm playing a long session/dance when I haven't done any practice for a while. Seems to work.

Nigel

Thrupenny Bit · « **Reply #32 on:** January 09, 2011, 03:56:56 PM »

Hmmmm that's a thought.
Don't usually resort to drugs, but....

( unless

of course.....)

Might give it a try. My upper arms are feeling sore, consistent with lifting things on NY Eve when I felt a twang after. I'm starting to wonder if this is all because of an earlier muscle pull not associated with playing but only time will tell. It takes a time for a pull to get right so might apply some gel to help it along.
cheers
Q

Thrupenny Bit · « **Reply #33 on:** January 26, 2011, 08:08:31 PM »

Dear All,
I thought I'd update things after getting some very thoughtful and helpful hints and tips after my twinges previously described.
Well, I think I'm ok!
As said I had to tease out many differing strands and try and get to the bottom of it all.
I had some pulled arm muscles, which have now repaired and my upper arms are fine. Pulling them and the associated overuse did not help my twinges. After being careful about repeated lifting at work I'm now conscious of it and using trolleys a lot more, the pulls seemed to be a fundamental problem.
I did chat to my H&S friend at work and she advised seeing my doc, and also getting my computer station checked. My doc talked to me and asked about my cramping fingers. As said, my fingers often seem to cramp 'straight' or simply bend but in a straight plane away from each other. He thought it was entirely consistent with playing a new instrument and something my body simply has to get used to.
He also mentioned the 'getting old' bit

If my fingers had triggered/spasmed down towards my palm, that would have been different. ( He didn't expand on this, but got the feeling it was 'not good'.) Having laid off the practising last week, as my daughters needed quiet for exams, my reduced practise meant it simply didn't happen. At all...... I felt this tied in with his thoughts.

My real 'Eureka' moment was last week at work after a lot of pouring over catalogues and keyboard bashing to compile some large orders. At the end of the afternoon my arms felt really weak again, above and below the elbows. Then I rested my hand on the desk....it felt really weak and wobbly. I could feel constant vibrations from the computer tower fan vibrating the entire desk! I touched the tower and it was worse. I then remembered when I'd last had this sort of feelings in my arms - after using a drill or concrete breaker for a long while, d-i-ying, giving constant vibration to my muscles and so making them feel weak. It sounds absolutely barking that a fan could cause such odd feelings, but I've moved the tower off the desk, and it has stopped it instantly

Today got my computer checked - position fine, so that was the last part of the jigsaw.

So.... all's well that ends well.
Thank you for all your kind thoughts and advice.
Q

stevejay · « **Reply #34 on:** January 26, 2011, 11:05:15 PM »

http://www.zippo.com/products/handwarmer.aspx?bhcp=1

is a very cool product and a great conversation piece as well. Maybe this is good for people who need warmer hands in general.

zippydw · « **Reply #35 on:** February 08, 2011, 06:42:09 PM »

There is another thread just like this one going on another page. Check the Home page.

Peter G · « **Reply #36 on:** February 08, 2011, 11:35:37 PM »

A note from the vet! Many musculoskeletal injuries, acute and chronic, have their source in back problems. Tiny misalignments of the spine irritate the nerves which supply the muscles of the fore legs and hindlegs (arms and legs for the two footed) The muscles are put into tension so that they don't stretch properly, hence when stressed in any way tend to micro tears ; othherwise extra stress on tendons hence tendon strains or tendinitis. local treatment is only partly successful unless the back is treated. The most common problem areas are the lumbosacral junction and the cervico thoracic area- precisely the areas associated with the nerves to the limbs. My patients therefore are always referred to a chiropractor as well as getting treatment from me. This is particularly important in greyhounds but also applies to other breeds such as labradors and I'm sure melodeon players. Whether or not stretching muscles helps (i always felt it did in my footballing days) stretching the back before dancing should certianly do so. Hope this helps
Pete

Ebor_fiddler · « **Reply #37 on:** February 09, 2011, 12:19:40 AM »

Pete's right about stretching the muscles before dancing - it's a method I have used for some time. I'm just a little worried about being classed with labradors - they are fit!

AirTime · « **Reply #38 on:** June 08, 2011, 05:16:40 AM »

I just came across this thread. For the last two or three months I have been experiencing pain around my shoulder blades. I put it down to my (rather strenuous, "torquey") activities of kitesurfing & squash. However, last night I came to the sudden & somewhat startling realisation that what was causing the increasingly acute pain was not the sporting activities but playing the accordion.

I have been playing a small 12 bass PA (about 8 or 9 lbs). Generally I play standing up. What is causing the pain, is the height at which I have to lift my elbow & shoulder blade in order to play the PA keys. One solution may be to use longer straps that position the accordion lower on my chest (the existing straps will not extend any longer). But for the time being I am going to have to take a break for a while to allow my body to "recover".

I am expecting to pick up a diatonic accordion next week (probably a Pokerwork). Is the playing posture (especially the right arm) for a 2-row DBA inherently different than for a small PA, or are these issues that occur for DBA players also? What steps should I take to avoid similar problems with the DBA?

Thrupenny Bit · « **Reply #39 on:** June 08, 2011, 02:23:20 PM »

Hi there AirTime,
It was me that started the thread, and had a lot of differing things going on at the time.
I remember having the melodeon up fairly high on my chest and I've now lowered it a bit. My arm now lies at about 90degress across my chest as opposed to having a more bent elbow with my fingers pointing up towards my chin. I try to keep my wrist and forearm in a straight line with my elbow off my chest, as opposed to 'bending' my wrist around with my arm resting against my torso.
There's a 'Help' section on Bernard Loffet's Diatonic website, ( which my Google translater sorts out for me! ) with similar helpful discussions about arm positions on it. Sorry am a bit rushed so can't give actual link, but take a look aroun the most helpful site.
My small melodeon is ~3kg so I'd have thought weight/playing position would be similar to a PA though have never played a PA!!
Not sure if others will come along with other ideas.........
cheers
Q

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Author Topic: Tendonitus or 'Learning Pains'? (Read 8862 times)