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Author Topic: What is it about the Hohner Club  (Read 17550 times)

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Gary P Chapin

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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2017, 01:28:30 AM »

I don't think there is anything wrong with reviving old threads. As for your question, I'm not sure which of the instruments discussed you are asking about.
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Melissa Sinclair

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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2017, 02:22:56 AM »

I don't think there is anything wrong with reviving old threads. As for your question, I'm not sure which of the instruments discussed you are asking about.

I was referring to your comment here: "Club system is excellent but totally obsolate. Every educated/enthusiastic melodeonists should spend a couple of months on the Club system as an melodeon-intellectual adventure. A 3-row G/C/accidentals with reversed A, G is much more powerful system and can do anything and more than a Club especially with 18 basses."  What is such an instrument?
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Gary P Chapin

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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2017, 03:14:14 AM »

Ah, what they're talking about is something like Castagnari's Handry 18. It's a three row melodeon with 18 basses.

Here's Didier Laloy playing one: http://accordeonaire.blogspot.com/2016/03/didier-laloy-lundi.html
And here's the group Tref, with three of the beasts going: http://accordeonaire.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-belgians-are-here.html

Hope that helps.

Gary
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Melissa Sinclair

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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2017, 03:36:13 AM »

Ah, what they're talking about is something like Castagnari's Handry 18. It's a three row melodeon with 18 basses.

Here's Didier Laloy playing one: http://accordeonaire.blogspot.com/2016/03/didier-laloy-lundi.html
And here's the group Tref, with three of the beasts going: http://accordeonaire.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-belgians-are-here.html

Hope that helps.

Gary

THose tones are gorgeous... There was a reason I was attracted to playing the French Horn.  Now I want one of those and they REALLY don't exist in the states!!!! Well yes, Scott has one - for $3500... no wonder it has a nice sound. It's made well! Here's a nice video showing different voices of the instrument, nothing fancy
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zz95AcuyUU

« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 03:39:24 AM by Melissa Sinclair »
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AirTime

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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2017, 04:48:41 AM »

Fascinating how this goes round & around ...

I have owned both a steirische accordion & a Handry. Both wonderful instruments in their own right. The thing to understand about diatonic accordions is that unlike fully chromatic accordions (like piano accordions) they have been designed to be "limited" - that is to say they are not designed to be capable of playing everything & anything, but rather to play a more limited repertoire in an intuitively logical & economical way. The variety of diatonic box designs - & there are quite a lot of them - evolved to best serve the musical repertoire they were intended for. 

I suspect that if you take more time to delve into the variety of styles of music & variety of types of diatonic accordion out there you will find much that appeals to you.  The standard 8 bass 21 treble quint diatonic accordion that many of us play has a lot to recommend it - it's an instrument that is easy to pick up & play. It's simple, light, expressive, powerful, intuitive for playing by ear & can sound great. So, where it would certainly be fair enough to focus on a steirische accordion, or a club system, or semi-tone system, or others, the most straightforward choice to start with is still the quint 8 bass 21 treble box. And the simple truth is that, should you become an dedicated melodeonista, the chances that you won't end up eventually trying ... & purchasing ... further boxes to experiment with different tunings, reed combinations, sounds & musical traditions are slim to none!  That's just the way of things ...  :||:
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Andrius

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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2017, 09:28:49 AM »

I am playing cross row style.
All my 2 row boxes are "clubbed" - with gleichton. I can play more in this way.
My repertoire is Lithuanian folk music, so no additional chromatic sounds needed.
Some of my Club boxes are used like 2 row accordions, accidentals are ignored.
Hohner Club III BS old style 2.7 row may be will be transformed into full 3 row.
Hohner Club III BS new style 2.7 row is because wonderful sound.
Hohner Liliput - no other so small Hohner without acc rows.
I planed to change it with Galotta (smaller and 2 rows and better sound) but 2 my Galottas are in different keys (A/D, C/F) so Liliput (Bb/Eb) still exist.
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Koch Bb/Eb 12b 3v : Koch A/D 8b 2v : Koch C/F 12b 2v : Hohner Erica C/F 8b 2v : Hohner Erika C/F 2.4 row 8b 2v : Hohner early pre-Corona F/Bb/Eb 12b 2v: Hohner Liliput 2.4 row Bb/Eb 8b 2v : Hohner Club III BS C/F 2.7 row 8b 3v : Galotta D/G 8b 2v : Meinel & Herold G/C/F 16b 2v : Unkn G/C 8b 2v : Petersburg accordion F/Bb/Eb 16b 3v: Petersburg accordion G/C/F 16b 2v : Bandoneon Alfred Arnold 128 tone 2v : Bandoneon Wilhelm König 144 tone 2 v

Theo

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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2017, 10:07:13 AM »

The big advantage of the Club system is that there are lots and lots of lovely Hohner Club boxes that can be bought with very little money.  The best on strictly value for money terms of the Hohner Clubs are the Ouverture and Morino models.  For example this Ouverture on ebay for £400 buy it now.   Even if you have to spend the same again on tuning it's still staggeringly good value if you want a big heavy multi voice box.  If you could buy one of these new today I guess it would cost at least as much as a Handry.  Probably £4.5k or $5.5.  Similar instruments regularly appear on German ebay for well under €800.
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Melissa Sinclair

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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2017, 08:01:07 PM »

Fascinating how this goes round & around ...

I have owned both a steirische accordion & a Handry. Both wonderful instruments in their own right. The thing to understand about diatonic accordions is that unlike fully chromatic accordions (like piano accordions) they have been designed to be "limited" - that is to say they are not designed to be capable of playing everything & anything, but rather to play a more limited repertoire in an intuitively logical & economical way. The variety of diatonic box designs - & there are quite a lot of them - evolved to best serve the musical repertoire they were intended for. 

I suspect that if you take more time to delve into the variety of styles of music & variety of types of diatonic accordion out there you will find much that appeals to you.  The standard 8 bass 21 treble quint diatonic accordion that many of us play has a lot to recommend it - it's an instrument that is easy to pick up & play. It's simple, light, expressive, powerful, intuitive for playing by ear & can sound great. So, where it would certainly be fair enough to focus on a steirische accordion, or a club system, or semi-tone system, or others, the most straightforward choice to start with is still the quint 8 bass 21 treble box. And the simple truth is that, should you become an dedicated melodeonista, the chances that you won't end up eventually trying ... & purchasing ... further boxes to experiment with different tunings, reed combinations, sounds & musical traditions are slim to none!  That's just the way of things ...  :||:

THis post is very useful and has me thinking a bit more - as you are right... and it's how I should approach it. I think what started happening for me is that the price for a simpler machine isn't much different in the US for the grand, huge machines... I'm thinking more bang for my buck, than I am for ease of learning and lugging.

I do totally get that each instrument is meant for a different niche and like most things, trying to get one multipurpose instrument may lead to doing none of them well and me being dissatisfied.
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Melissa Sinclair

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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2017, 08:03:11 PM »

I am playing cross row style.
All my 2 row boxes are "clubbed" - with gleichton. I can play more in this way.
My repertoire is Lithuanian folk music, so no additional chromatic sounds needed.
Some of my Club boxes are used like 2 row accordions, accidentals are ignored.
Hohner Club III BS old style 2.7 row may be will be transformed into full 3 row.
Hohner Club III BS new style 2.7 row is because wonderful sound.
Hohner Liliput - no other so small Hohner without acc rows.
I planed to change it with Galotta (smaller and 2 rows and better sound) but 2 my Galottas are in different keys (A/D, C/F) so Liliput (Bb/Eb) still exist.

My thought was somewhere on that line of - if I like the sound of club... then get a club so that I don't need to relearn anything/everything... I'm still not understanding what cross row playing is, but I'll look it up. I know it's associated with the club instruments...
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Melissa Sinclair

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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2017, 08:33:32 PM »

The big advantage of the Club system is that there are lots and lots of lovely Hohner Club boxes that can be bought with very little money.  The best on strictly value for money terms of the Hohner Clubs are the Ouverture and Morino models.  For example this Ouverture on ebay for £400 buy it now.   Even if you have to spend the same again on tuning it's still staggeringly good value if you want a big heavy multi voice box.  If you could buy one of these new today I guess it would cost at least as much as a Handry.  Probably £4.5k or $5.5.  Similar instruments regularly appear on German ebay for well under €800.

I am really nervous about buying from ebay unless it's from a reputable seller - either a pro who will keep up the instrument, or from a technician. EVERYTHING in the states says this about buying an accordion - don't buy from ebay. I don't have the know how of how to repair and I don't many will.
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Andrius

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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2017, 08:43:19 PM »

it is possible to play using one row only; you have two single row accordions in one 2 row box. Lot of push and pull bellows.
Cross row - used so much sounds from other row as possible, minimal changing bellows direction.
Pay attention - boxes like Morino or Ouverture are heavy. I prefer two voices accordions, but have and three voices.
I bought pre-Morino with five voices only to use reeds in other accordions.
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Koch Bb/Eb 12b 3v : Koch A/D 8b 2v : Koch C/F 12b 2v : Hohner Erica C/F 8b 2v : Hohner Erika C/F 2.4 row 8b 2v : Hohner early pre-Corona F/Bb/Eb 12b 2v: Hohner Liliput 2.4 row Bb/Eb 8b 2v : Hohner Club III BS C/F 2.7 row 8b 3v : Galotta D/G 8b 2v : Meinel & Herold G/C/F 16b 2v : Unkn G/C 8b 2v : Petersburg accordion F/Bb/Eb 16b 3v: Petersburg accordion G/C/F 16b 2v : Bandoneon Alfred Arnold 128 tone 2v : Bandoneon Wilhelm König 144 tone 2 v

Theo

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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2017, 08:46:06 PM »

The big advantage of the Club system is that there are lots and lots of lovely Hohner Club boxes that can be bought with very little money.  The best on strictly value for money terms of the Hohner Clubs are the Ouverture and Morino models.  For example this Ouverture on ebay for £400 buy it now.   Even if you have to spend the same again on tuning it's still staggeringly good value if you want a big heavy multi voice box.  If you could buy one of these new today I guess it would cost at least as much as a Handry.  Probably £4.5k or $5.5.  Similar instruments regularly appear on German ebay for well under €800.

I am really nervous about buying from ebay unless it's from a reputable seller - either a pro who will keep up the instrument, or from a technician. EVERYTHING in the states says this about buying an accordion - don't buy from ebay. I don't have the know how of how to repair and I don't many will.

That is good advice.   I was just trying to illustrate some of the range of instruments that are available.  How you find the right one is another matter!
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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2017, 08:47:19 PM »

The big advantage of the Club system is that there are lots and lots of lovely Hohner Club boxes that can be bought with very little money.  The best on strictly value for money terms of the Hohner Clubs are the Ouverture and Morino models.  For example this Ouverture on ebay for £400 buy it now.   Even if you have to spend the same again on tuning it's still staggeringly good value if you want a big heavy multi voice box.  If you could buy one of these new today I guess it would cost at least as much as a Handry.  Probably £4.5k or $5.5.  Similar instruments regularly appear on German ebay for well under €800.

I am really nervous about buying from ebay unless it's from a reputable seller - either a pro who will keep up the instrument, or from a technician. EVERYTHING in the states says this about buying an accordion - don't buy from ebay. I don't have the know how of how to repair and I don't many will.

Take a look there, melnet's members shop:
Scotts web site Rochester, New York, USA
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Koch Bb/Eb 12b 3v : Koch A/D 8b 2v : Koch C/F 12b 2v : Hohner Erica C/F 8b 2v : Hohner Erika C/F 2.4 row 8b 2v : Hohner early pre-Corona F/Bb/Eb 12b 2v: Hohner Liliput 2.4 row Bb/Eb 8b 2v : Hohner Club III BS C/F 2.7 row 8b 3v : Galotta D/G 8b 2v : Meinel & Herold G/C/F 16b 2v : Unkn G/C 8b 2v : Petersburg accordion F/Bb/Eb 16b 3v: Petersburg accordion G/C/F 16b 2v : Bandoneon Alfred Arnold 128 tone 2v : Bandoneon Wilhelm König 144 tone 2 v

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2017, 08:52:11 PM »

Linking this thread to your other one about keys.....
On the left hand side of the Home page of the forum, you can see a list of keyboard layouts. There are examples of 1,2 3 row and the club system. That might help you visualise what we are going on about.

I play a 2 row 8 bass DG. Early in my playing I downloaded then printed off the keyboard best suited for me. I took a couple of different coloured pencils and coloured in what I could play on the push and different colour for the pull. It sounds painfully simplistic but it really helped me visualise scales and where to find the notes.
Might help you understand what all these different systems are.
Q
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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2017, 11:42:31 PM »

Can I suggest that you pick half a dozen tunes that you are itching to play and let us know. It might be that they are completely playable on a small instrument. Or that you really do need something bigger for the full range of notes.
We have a tune of the month here, and you will hear the same tune played on a range of instruments, with a range of experience from the player.
I envy some of the wonderful 3 row, 3 voice instruments - such as the new Guais that Jack Humphreys has recently bought - but I personally find them uncomfortable. Really fine makers also make really fine 2 row 2 voice (that's the number of reeds per note) boxes that are light and responsive.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love a 3 row Guais, but I like playing standing up - and without reaching round an instrument.
I know you've said that you are able to handle a bigger instrument - me too. I just don't enjoy it as much.
We are lucky here to have people relatively handy to beg borrow or hire from to find out whether it suits us.
I do think the best thing is to keep asking questions and researching, but get something in the meantime to get you going. Good luck in the hunt, and there are no questions too simple to ask... I know I've asked some blinders.
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AirTime

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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2017, 03:25:13 AM »

Quote
THis post is very useful and has me thinking a bit more - as you are right... and it's how I should approach it. I think what started happening for me is that the price for a simpler machine isn't much different in the US for the grand, huge machines... I'm thinking more bang for my buck, than I am for ease of learning and lugging.

I do totally get that each instrument is meant for a different niche and like most things, trying to get one multipurpose instrument may lead to doing none of them well and me being dissatisfied.

You definitely DON'T want to choose an instrument simply because it offers "more bang for your buck". You're right: there are quite a lot of boxes floating around the US on Ebay that seem to offer a lot for the money - some of them may even be in decent, playable condition. But there's a reason Hohner Morinos & Overtures & larger Hohner Clubs are cheap - people don't want them. The things that they were built for are not what most people are looking for now.

On the other hand, old, simple Hohners, make excellent boxes for general purposes. They can be tidied up & re-tuned to play & sound fantastic & can then re-sold in the future without losing money, if you want to try something different . I would strongly suggest you contact Scott at Bellinger's Boxes to see what he currently has available. The Button Box in Massachusetts has a decent selection, but tends not to carry older re-furbished boxes. I don't really recommend Liberty Bellows as they are much more focused on piano accordions.

From what you have written, I suspect you are at a stage where there is a LOT more that you will come across online that will appeal to you. It's inevitably going to be a gradual learning process, but starting with a simple 2 row/8 bass box is always a sensible place to start.  (:)

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Melissa Sinclair

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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2017, 03:53:46 AM »


You definitely DON'T want to choose an instrument simply because it offers "more bang for your buck". You're right: there are quite a lot of boxes floating around the US on Ebay that seem to offer a lot for the money - some of them may even be in decent, playable condition. But there's a reason Hohner Morinos & Overtures & larger Hohner Clubs are cheap - people don't want them. The things that they were built for are not what most people are looking for now.

On the other hand, old, simple Hohners, make excellent boxes for general purposes. They can be tidied up & re-tuned to play & sound fantastic & can then re-sold in the future without losing money, if you want to try something different . I would strongly suggest you contact Scott at Bellinger's Boxes to see what he currently has available. The Button Box in Massachusetts has a decent selection, but tends not to carry older re-furbished boxes. I don't really recommend Liberty Bellows as they are much more focused on piano accordions.

From what you have written, I suspect you are at a stage where there is a LOT more that you will come across online that will appeal to you. It's inevitably going to be a gradual learning process, but starting with a simple 2 row/8 bass box is always a sensible place to start.  (:)

First, I am in contact with Scott -  found him the day I found this. we have started to email about things.

But second - why would it fall out of favor?  I don't quite  understand that. That's like saying the flute fell out of favor. I can see if people are wanting to play professionally and gigs dry up as jigs come in and polkas go out. But for hobby playing? 

I don't even know why accordion was all the rage in the 50s and early 60s and then became like the ultimate nerd instrument. How can an instrument be nerdy???

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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2017, 07:17:37 AM »


But second - why would it fall out of favor?  I don't quite  understand that. That's like saying the flute fell out of favor. I can see if people are wanting to play professionally and gigs dry up as jigs come in and polkas go out. But for hobby playing? 


In terms of UK folk music the big down side about these gorgeous boxes is that the predominant keys for sessions etc are G and D Major plus related minors.  Most of these boxes that come up for sale are C/F and whilst you can play them in any key the basses become more limited as you move away from their home keys.

There is also a weight issue.  The Ouverture is relatively heavy and, speaking for myself, my shoulders and back aren't what they used to be.

Steve
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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2017, 07:31:11 AM »

About the nerdy instrument - may be it's different. In Lithuania piano accordions are on the wave now. Button accordions never were popular on professional scene, but there are lot of people from young to old playing them.
No matter - professional scene or for hobby only - you must chose the best instrument for yourself, not for somebody like me.
I am leader of few folklore groups and performing with lot of instruments very often. I needed many years to understand what kind of instruments i need. I played with heavy (8 kg) instruments with 12 registers to understand that i can use only 3 of 12, so my choice was Hohner Club III BS - more than 50 years old with amazing reeds and all three registers i need. This is < 4 kg, not 8 kg, but not my very loved instrument. Favorites are small 1-2 kg 2 voice boxes, the same for concerts and for playing at home. I am selling the biggest 4 voices bandonion for the same reason - for me, high and strong man - it's too heavy for making music. I don't know any musician who loves heavy instruments but i believe that somebody plays with them.
Key of instrument is another important choice. If you are going to play together with somebody you must ask about common keys. If it is mostly for yourself i can recommend G/C, A/D, Bb/Eb for reasons described by Theo.
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Koch Bb/Eb 12b 3v : Koch A/D 8b 2v : Koch C/F 12b 2v : Hohner Erica C/F 8b 2v : Hohner Erika C/F 2.4 row 8b 2v : Hohner early pre-Corona F/Bb/Eb 12b 2v: Hohner Liliput 2.4 row Bb/Eb 8b 2v : Hohner Club III BS C/F 2.7 row 8b 3v : Galotta D/G 8b 2v : Meinel & Herold G/C/F 16b 2v : Unkn G/C 8b 2v : Petersburg accordion F/Bb/Eb 16b 3v: Petersburg accordion G/C/F 16b 2v : Bandoneon Alfred Arnold 128 tone 2v : Bandoneon Wilhelm König 144 tone 2 v

Randal Scott

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Re: What is it about the Hohner Club
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2017, 05:37:15 PM »

The big advantage of the Club system is that there are lots and lots of lovely Hohner Club boxes that can be bought with very little money.  The best on strictly value for money terms of the Hohner Clubs are the Ouverture and Morino models. 

When I got the itch to try button accordian, one of my first acquisitions - and my first 'good'-condition box - happened to be a club (III BS).  I've tried and owned several other configurations over the past decade, but the club III is still my primary box (it happens to do a very good job with the legato-style music I enjoy playing such as Satie and French repertoire, zydeco, blues, etc).

Several times I've come very close to acquiring an ouverture, but have stayed with the smaller III: not only does it have a big sound, it's still quite nimble for a bit of Irish/Scottish repertoire.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 05:38:52 PM by catty »
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