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Author Topic: Eureka 4  (Read 2761 times)

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Sandy

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Eureka 4
« on: January 16, 2011, 07:03:27 PM »

Eureka 4

John Kirkpatrick workshop :-)   ......clarity of notes

This is probably well known in the melodeon world  but I didn't know who JK was until a few years ago.  :|bl
Practice tunes in the most staccato way to get clarity in the right hand......especially for fast runs.

This is something that I have only really worked on since Witney (2009) and it's more difficult than I realised and I'm still working on it  ::)

cheers
Sandy
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doh....should have been practise not practice  ::)....although you can read it the other way too. :Ph
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 07:23:22 PM by Sandy »
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Theo

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Re: Eureka 4
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2011, 07:41:59 PM »


This is probably well known in the melodeon world  but I didn't know who JK was until a few years ago.  :|bl
Practice tunes in the most staccato way to get clarity in the right hand......especially for fast runs.
Ed Rennie is the absolute master of this technique.
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Owen Woods

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Re: Eureka 4
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2011, 01:57:21 PM »

I've been trying to convince the PA players in the band to practice staccato (they tend to play everything ultra-legato, like all PA players, which is not ideal for dance music). It is amazing just how much difference it can make, but they aren't convinced. Have you tried popping? When you tap the button so swiftly that the reed barely has time to sound, it just sort of "pops". That can be quite fun, it's not easy if you haven't done it before. I'm not terribly good at it, but I saw an Irish player in a session once do a fast run like that. Amazing.
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Marje

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Re: Eureka 4
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2011, 02:15:19 PM »

Yes, I was at a workshop with JK once and he said practise difficult bits staccato and slowly. This really shows you exactly what you're doing, and prevents you from masking your mistakes with other notes, or fluffing over the tricky bits the way you might do at sessions (well, I might).

It really helped me.
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Banjo Ray

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Re: Eureka 4
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2011, 02:52:49 AM »

I have a newbie question (well not that newbie, I've been at this for 6 months - more 'slowbie") - which I think is relevant to this Eureka point.

First of all I'm playing a D/G.  

For scale runs - in this particular case 'old tom of oxford' which has a run down from G, F#, E, D -
I'm basically doing this - push G button, change bellows for F#, push E button, change bellow for D.
It's slow, awkward and sounds messy.  Should I re-push the button rather than just change the bellows direction to get a neater effect?

I hope that explains it.

Thanks for all your help.  I dont post often but I get a lot of help from you guys

Ray
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Eureka 4
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2011, 05:20:16 AM »

Takes a little practice but on a 2 row you'll generally achieve "cleaner"' sound by crossing the rows. "Let your fingers do the work" Sadly for the D/G and this particular run .. E is only on pull, D only on push.  You could experiment with Gpull F#pull Epull - change direction to D.

So that's one of my Eurekas - 5-6 of the 7 notes of common scales are there on the pull without need to reverse bellows. Means you can hold down a nice solid left end chord or bass, and play away "fluidly" on the right end .. generally until that inconvenient D comes up. Instant arrangement.   Works particularly well in Em where the tune might not drop to D, or if it does, simply rocks back to E on the same button. :|glug
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Banjo Ray

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Re: Eureka 4
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2011, 06:43:18 AM »

Takes a little practice but on a 2 row you'll generally achieve "cleaner"' sound by crossing the rows. "Let your fingers do the work" Sadly for the D/G and this particular run .. E is only on pull, D only on push.  You could experiment with Gpull F#pull Epull - change direction to D.

So that's one of my Eurekas - 5-6 of the 7 notes of common scales are there on the pull without need to reverse bellows. Means you can hold down a nice solid left end chord or bass, and play away "fluidly" on the right end .. generally until that inconvenient D comes up. Instant arrangement.   Works particularly well in Em where the tune might not drop to D, or if it does, simply rocks back to E on the same button. :|glug
I did try that - I may give it another go.  Like everything else, its probably all about more practice.
I play "four-up" - in Em with lots of cross-rows, though I struggle because I run out of air and I'm not good enough to get more in the bellows without stuffing up the fluidity and rhythm. 
Thanks for your help

Ray
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Eureka 4
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2011, 09:16:19 AM »

You are breaking a different Eureka then.  Ease off the left end (just pop a bass, or even 'play silence") and let the right hand run do it's magic.

There's another another Eureka for me here - there are two Em scales. They differ by their 'C' notes.  "Aolian" Em uses the Cnat on the G row and cross fingers very easily. "Dorian" Em needs C# which is pull on the D row - you can also play it push pull on  D row alone - after a while you'll mix the two freely.

    The 'Em with C'  tunes include mediaeval stuff, and indeed basic the Em blues scale. 'Em with C#' melodies are very common in any 'folk revival' 60's stuff, and American imports. But both permeate the British tradition.

I'd wondered for years why some tunes used C and some C# - and why it was such a disaster  :|bl if you accidentally mixed them. Then someone explained 'modes' and it all fell into place. Now I regard them as separate scales 

(Some theory available on http://chrisryall.net/modes)


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Sandy

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Re: Eureka 4
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2011, 11:11:22 AM »


Should I re-push the button rather than just change the bellows direction to get a neater effect?


I think there's no right or wrong way. As Chris says, if you want to sustain a chord for a run then cross rows but if you want a more percussive feel to a tune then use a bellows change which is where I would practise playing the note twice. It is something to start really slow and gradually increase speed as you improve. You may not play it twice in the final outcome but the practice will help in clarity, especially for repeated notes. (I've got a long way to getting it right but have improved with practice)
I think it also depends on the tune and whether you think it calls for a particular feel.
Sometimes I play a piece slowly in two or three different ways, record on audacity, play it back, and decide which style I like for that tune.
cheers
Sandy
 (:)

george garside

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Re: Eureka 4
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2011, 12:54:31 PM »

a couple of thoughts on changing note on button or on bellows so to speak.l   I advocate  using the button i.e. press seperately for each note when practicing as this is the more difficult method to get spot on. ONce this can be done with ease a choice can be made as to where & when the note is changed by pressing button twice or just by bellows ins & outs - each sounds quite distinctive and  this  didfference of sound effect can be used to advantage if carefully chosen.

Learning to play 'staccato' is also very important ( staccato is generally taken in folk circles as meaning plaing notes crisply with a gap between notes rather than the classical speak of reducing a note by 50%) Sstaaccato is harder to learn but adds greatly to the overall effect of many tunes, particularly dance music. Lagato (smooth) is easy & comes quite naturally (? to naturally) to most people. It has its place and can be intermingled with staccato provided the player has the skill to play staccato.

3rd thought! - just leaving the bass off when playing a fast staccato run on the row (or mostly on the row) can sound , to me anyway, far nicer & interesting than playing the run against a 'drone' bass.

All these and a great many others form the building blocks of playhing technique so the more tricks in the repertoire the better. The art then resides in choosing which building block for   which bit of which tune.

george
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Alan Morley

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Re: Eureka 4
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2011, 12:58:42 PM »

The main inspiration for me to start playing melodeon was listening John Kirkpatrick on the original 'Morris On' LP....

Some years later - I found out he didn't play melodeon on the LP - he used the button accordeon.
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Owen Woods

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Re: Eureka 4
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2011, 02:50:00 PM »

I have a newbie question (well not that newbie, I've been at this for 6 months - more 'slowbie") - which I think is relevant to this Eureka point.

First of all I'm playing a D/G.  

For scale runs - in this particular case 'old tom of oxford' which has a run down from G, F#, E, D -
I'm basically doing this - push G button, change bellows for F#, push E button, change bellow for D.
It's slow, awkward and sounds messy.  Should I re-push the button rather than just change the bellows direction to get a neater effect?

I hope that explains it.

Thanks for all your help.  I dont post often but I get a lot of help from you guys

Ray


There is no right answer to that question, you will be delighted to hear! Some people advocate only moving the bellows, they say that it ends the previous note less sharply and lets the new note ease in nicer. It also gives more bounce to the playing. This relies on you having good bellows control, because obviously with that, the bellows have a good deal of the rhythm associated with them as well as the attack and dynamics. The second way is to press the button again, which is what I usually end up doing. This makes a crisper sound, but you will need to spend more time practising attack on the bellows. Similarly, your fingers need to be very accurate so as to play in time.

Ideally, both techniques should be learned and used in different circumstances. George's advice is sound, especially about learning to play staccato. Both bellows control and RH agility are important, so best practice both!
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Banjo Ray

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Re: Eureka 4
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2011, 11:50:52 PM »

Thanks to all for your advice
Apologies to Sandy for sort of hijacking the thread.
The "Eureka" series has been great. 

Ray
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