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[Bob Ellis]

Hi Lester - your layout looks interesting. The G/A reversals seem a good idea, but doesn't that make the A fundamental on the bottom button of the outside row redundant? Might it be better to replace it with, say, an A#?

Your comment that the layout you posted from one of Emmanuel's earlier courses is the same as the Castagnari factory layout (to which you posted a link) is not entirely accurate. Emmanuel's layout put the B flat/F buttons on the outer row and the E flat/F# buttons on the inner row, whereas the Castagnari factory layout (which I have on two of my boxes) has the B flat/F buttons on the inner row and the E flat/F# buttons on the outer row, which seems more logical to me. Perhaps there was an accidental transposition on Emmanuel's diagram.

I see your point about C# and G# on those extra bass buttons providing a chromatic set of fundamentals, but the only place I could see them being used is in a bass run because they do not fit with any of the adjacent chords. Now, if there were row to put in a couple more buttons and the associated reeds so that we could have the chords that go with those fundamentals...

[Lester]

Hi Lester - your layout looks interesting. The G/A reversals seem a good idea, but doesn't that make the A fundamental on the bottom button of the outside row redundant? Might it be better to replace it with, say, an A#?

Good spot, I have actually changed both the kneemost bass buttons to add back the Bb and Eb that I had lost thus maintaining all 12 notes in the bass. New image attached seems to be broken but if you click on it it works.

Your comment that the layout you posted from one of Emmanuel's earlier courses is the same as the Castagnari factory layout (to which you posted a link) is not entirely accurate. Emmanuel's layout put the B flat/F buttons on the outer row and the E flat/F# buttons on the inner row, whereas the Castagnari factory layout (which I have on two of my boxes) has the B flat/F buttons on the inner row and the E flat/F# buttons on the outer row, which seems more logical to me. Perhaps there was an accidental transposition on Emmanuel's diagram.

Sorry, I got mess up comparing Manu's portrait picture with the mel.net landscape one, you are of course right.

[Theo]

My thought so far, interested in comments, click on the layout for a bigger version

Lester, I'd be interested in your reasons for the E pull on button 1 of the G row.  Is it a repeat of the E on button 3 of the D row?  If so it seems a bit unnecessary. I would find it much more useful to have a low C.  I suppose it depends on what you play, but I have a small but significant number of tunes in G that go down to the low G, and use all the G scale from there up, hence the preference for the low C.  For the same reason I would replace the low F# on button 1 of the D row with a low G.  It would also find the conventional low A pull on the same button much more useful than the low B pull. because  most  all of the D tunes with a low B that I play,  want a B or G cord at that point so it makes more musical sense to use the B on the G row.  Another use for the low pull A is it enables you to play an A7 chord, which is often useful.

[brianread]

Lester, I'd be interested in your reasons for the E pull on button 1 of the G row.  Is it a repeat of the E on button 3 of the D row?  If so it seems a bit unnecessary. I would find it much more useful to have a low C.  I suppose it depends on what you play, but I have a small but significant number of tunes in G that go down to the low G, and use all the G scale from there up, hence the preference for the low C.  For the same reason I would replace the low F# on button 1 of the D row with a low G. 

I'll probably go for both - the low C and the E on the G row - by having a 4th button start.  I find I can't do DEF#G runs easily switching rows, maybe because of using my little finger (I am upside down remember!).  And i like to play "under" ther fiddles etc, so i need a full octave below the G.  Same for the D Row.

[Lester]

Lester, I'd be interested in your reasons for the E pull on button 1 of the G row.  Is it a repeat of the E on button 3 of the D row?  If so it seems a bit unnecessary. I would find it much more useful to have a low C.  I suppose it depends on what you play, but I have a small but significant number of tunes in G that go down to the low G, and use all the G scale from there up, hence the preference for the low C. 

It was just a copy of Manu's original layout which I had not considered changing. But now you mention it 

For the same reason I would replace the low F# on button 1 of the D row with a low G.  It would also find the conventional low A pull on the same button much more useful than the low B pull. because  most  all of the D tunes with a low B that I play,  want a B or G cord at that point so it makes more musical sense to use the B on the G row.  Another use for the low pull A is it enables you to play an A7 chord, which is often useful.

Many thanks Theo, I seem to remember this was the layout you put on the Liliput I had at one time. Should have written it down then

Mark 111 layout

[Bob Ellis]

I have attached my current thinking about the configuration I want on my box. It is based on a fourth button start so that I can have a full octave below each key note and replicates as much as is feasible of the configuration I use on my 33-button three-row Castagnaris. I am still uncertain about what use to make of the extra bass buttons and so I am following Manu's layout for those buttons, as circulated by Lester.

If anyone thinks any part of this is inadvisable or if they have any other observations, I would be grateful to receive them.

[Theo]

... or if they have any other observations, I would be grateful to receive them.[/color]

I'm pretty sure I would have no use for the low D/E on button 1 of the D row, but I would want a low F nat on pull somewhere. 

[Bob Ellis]

I'm pretty sure I would have no use for the low D/E on button 1 of the D row, but I would want a low F nat on pull somewhere. 

Thanks for the observations, Theo. The idea of the low D/E button is to give a full octave of D below the key note. However, I shall check through my repertoire to see how often I actually use it.

As you probably noticed, there are two pulled F naturals on the third row. I use both quite often, but I have not found a need for a lower one. Nevertheless, I shall mull it over.

[Theo]

Bob,  my logic for going down to low G is that quit a number of tines go down there because it's the lowest not on a fiddle and British (and other European) traditional tunes have been heavily influenced by the fiddle for a couple of centuries. I don't think there has been a similar evolutionary pressure to take tunes down below that.

[Martin J]

I'm following with interest and would have loved to have enrolled for the course.  Anyway, may I add a comment for consideration.  My Dony came with the factory layout Lester linked to but after only a few days it became apparent that it was difficult to play in practice.  I looked at straddella, set out in the order of descending flats, and changed the four new basses to the opposite end of the row.  I can now reach everything easily and it sits logically in my head.  Fourth button start allows easy playing of C major with correct chords easily reached, no stretch, no jumps.  In fact it's the same for almost everything I play.

Hope this helps.

[Bob Ellis]

Bob,  my logic for going down to low G is that quite a number of tunes go down there because it's the lowest note on a fiddle and British (and other European) traditional tunes have been heavily influenced by the fiddle for a couple of centuries. I don't think there has been a similar evolutionary pressure to take tunes down below that.

I see your point, Theo, but I do sometimes use that low D/E button to play a repeat of a tune in D in the lower octave. However, your suggestion set me thinking that I rarely use the high D/B button on the D row and both notes are repeated and easily accessible on the G row. On the other hand a high B flat/G# button is something that I do use, so I have put that in as an accidental button at the top of the D row (revised configuration attached). Thanks very much for your input: it helped solve the problem of how to include those accidentals.

[BFG]

Hi All.

I've been following the discussion on what/what not to have with avid interest and am now trying to figure out what to put on my box as a relative newby.

This has led me to a question filling in the "fingerboard wanted" on Emmanuel's diagram.

The melodeon we will be making definitely has 10 buttons on the D row and 9 on the G row? So I ignore the extra two buttons at the top of the treble end on Emmanuel's "fingerboard wanted" diagram?

Sorry if that seems really dumb, I just don't want to do it wrong and confuse the whole process.

Thanks,

Rob

[brianread]

I asked the same question on the MM yahoo group.

Lester counted the buttons on the melodeons in the Norweigan picture, and thinks it is 10+9+6, it would ge good to have definate confirmation of that from Jon?

[Bob Ellis]

I am also working on the assumption that the configuration is 10+9+6. However, it would be good to have confirmation of that from Manu via Jon.

[Pete]

Am I the only one to have been told that after paying £1400 that I've got to pay another £550 to do this course?  I would be Interested to know .

[Lester]

Am I the only one to have been told that after paying £1400 that I've got to pay another £550 to do this course?  I would be interested to know.

You are not the only one and I believe Jon told you the reason in the email that went to us all. I put it down to cock up rather than conspiracy. So far I am aware of 3 of the attendees asking for refunds, which I am told will be freely given, (this includes me) but as the need is to lose 5 attendees this is probably not a problem. 

[BFG]

I've unfortunately had to drop out as well - can't stretch to the extra 550.

Shame, but hopefully the course will be a success and they'll run it again in the near future.

To all that's still going - have fun!

Cheers,

Rob

[brianread]

I also have dropped out.  Regrettably.

[Bob Ellis]

We have all had the same e-mail. I phoned Jon and he explained in detail how the mistake occurred - quite understandable. While the extra £550 is going to be hard to find, I am still committed to going. To be honest, I didn't understand how they could do it for the original price quoted, when you think that each course member is guaranteed to "leave with a professional standard instrument, fully tuned and ready to play". The value of that alone is probably around £1,400 and then there is the cost of hiring the services of Manu, Theo and Rees plus their travelling expenses and accommodation and the cost of using the college facilities. So I think it is still good value at £1,950, although, of course, I regret that some who had set their hearts on going will not now be able to afford to do so.

I believe the state of play last night was that six people had confirmed their places, four had withdrawn, five were still making up their minds and there were a few others who had expressed interest and who would be approached if there were any places left to fill. I am keeping my fingers crossed that four more people will confirm places so that the course can run.

[brianread]

We have all had the same e-mail. I phoned Jon and he explained in detail how the mistake occurred - quite understandable. While the extra £550 is going to be hard to find, I am still committed to going. To be honest, I didn't understand how they could do it for the original price quoted, when you think that each course member is guaranteed to "leave with a professional standard instrument, fully tuned and ready to play". The value of that alone is probably around £1,400 and then there is the cost of hiring the services of Manu, Theo and Rees plus their travelling expenses and accommodation and the cost of using the college facilities. So I think it is still good value at £1,950, although, of course, I regret that some who had set their hearts on going will not now be able to afford to do so.

I believe the state of play last night was that six people had confirmed their places, four had withdrawn, five were still making up their minds and there were a few others who had expressed interest and who would be approached if there were any places left to fill. I am keeping my fingers crossed that four more people will confirm places so that the course can run.

Good luck Bob, I hope it happens for you.