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[Atzarin]

Back in September in the General Discussion section of this forum I posted a message about a new 3 row layout for bisonoric free reed instruments called Atzarin. The layout has been used on the Atzarin bandonion and some photos of the unfinished Atzarin prototype can now be seen on the Atzarin website. Although the work is incomplete, the photos give a very good idea of what the instrument actually looks like. Most pages with photos have a photo at the top of the page and at the botton, so make sure you scroll down if you want to see all the photos. Links to pages with videos and photos:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbeEmJNTR45DXESw5dT-sPQ?spfreload=10

http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_bandoneon_reshaped.html

[HallelujahAl]

Hi Sebastian - looks great, love to hear it now that you've completed the development stage?
Regards, AL

[Martin J]

Hi Atzarin

I have just re read your first thread and like many others on melnet am confused as to the why of it all.  The keyboard map seems counter intuitive and confusing.  This maybe because we are not used to it and have never tried it.  However, help is at hand.  Since your first post the Roland FR18 has become available with bespoke keyboard mapping.  If you could get hold of one, or persuade an owner to use your keyboard map, maybe we can have a practical example and see the advantages.  Best of luck with your project and I hope this helps.

[Owen Woods]

I personally don't think that the fingering system is that counter intuitive, it appeals to me slightly as it is a reasonably logical system, whilst being chromatic and bisonoric. I think that it is the only chromatic, bisonoric system in existence in the true sense.

The bandoneon looks great Sebastian, looking forward to sound and visuals

[Atzarin]

Some photos of the unfinished Atzarin bandonion prototype can now be seen on the Atzarin website. The photos clearly show the shape of the new button arcs and hand rail and the shape and position of the air valve lever which is to be tested on the instrument over the next few weeks.



http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/instruments.html

Sound and visuals coming in the near future.

I'll be in the UK with the Atzarin bandonion prototype at the end of April, first in South London and later in Ipswich, so we could arrange to meet if you're interested in having a go on it!

Sebastian

[Martin J]

The instrument has a very professional look about it and I'm sure you'll be paying as much attention to the sound as the design detail, but of course it is the unique keyboard layout that continues to fascinate.

An interesting change on your site Sebastian.  I see for the Bandoneon you set out the directions of increments.  I was slightly confused when I first looked at it so I've attached a map the same as Castagnari do with the Push on top.  I hope you don't mind.  Others may find it more understandable as well.  Depends what you are used to.  I can now understand far better.

[Atzarin]

Thanks for all comments and encouragement!

An interesting change on your site Sebastian.  I see for the Bandoneon you set out the directions of increments.  I was slightly confused when I first looked at it so I've attached a map the same as Castagnari do with the Push on top.  I hope you don't mind.  Others may find it more understandable as well.  Depends what you are used to.  I can now understand far better.

Yes, I decided to leave the diagrams of diatonic keyboard layouts with push on top as well as the diagrams of traditional bandoneon layouts. However, in most diagrams of bandoneon layouts on other sites push notes are drawn on the bottom with draw notes on top, so I decided to do the same with the Atzarin layout diagrams. In fact, I wanted to change all drawings on the web site so as to maintain consistency, but I just haven't been able to find the time.

Thank you very much, No Strings Attached, for going to the trouble of producing an alternative drawing that may help more people to understand the layout better or more easily.

Hi Sebastian - looks great, love to hear it now that you've completed the development stage?
Regards, AL

The development stage is not quite completely over. There will probably be minor alterations in the action, which is why I've still not put up a clear picture of the current action. Also, I'm looking into bringing out an "accordion" tuned model with MM reeds and "warm, dry" tremolo tuning, which may appeal to people who are put off by bandonion double octave super dry tuning.

The air valve lever needs testing as well and might require some modification or alternative. However, after initial testing I'm fairly confident that it will remain as is. The instrument will be tested over the next few days by a professional bandoneonist who will be considering all aspects - the usefulness and playability of the layout and the design aspects in terms of comfort and practicality.

Sorry to all for not responding more to your comments and observations but I really am pressed for time!

Sebastian

[Atzarin]

In January 2011 I posted some links to information about the Atzarin Bandonion. In spite of it not being possible to bring out the new prototype in the time desired, development and improvement have moved ahead. Information about this work and development towards an optimum Atzarin bandoenon is available at:

Stage 4 - Improvements in grip and stability.
http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_development_stage_4.html

Stage 5 _ Current development for optimum Atzarin Bandonion
http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_development_stage_5.html

Recent photos in the following links may be of particular interest to people who are skeptical about using the thumb to play notes and/or doubtful about the grip and control on the instrument:

Playing broadly voiced chords
http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_broad_chords.html

Atzarin bandonion comfort and playability
http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_comfort_playability.html

There are also recent photos in the following updated pages:

Atzarin bandonion overview
http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_bandoneon_reshaped.html

Atzarin bandonion hold and stability
http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_control_and_stability.html

Regards,

Sebastian Brown Apraiz
www.atzarin.com

[Atzarin]

The Atzarin bandonion project had been at an impasse for about three years, but has now moved forward. Some information about the impasse and the new development can be found at:

http://atzarin.com/eng/instruments/bandonion/atzarin_bandonion_development_stage_5.html

I have now put together a video, with errors and all, to show how the new grips work. The video is not to show any musical ability as I'm little more than a beginner. The idea is to show that it is possible to use the thumbs for playing technique whilst still maintaining a firm hold on the instrument without losing position on the buttons in chops or arrastres.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2HPoTuidL4

Regards,

Sebastian Brown Apraiz
www.atzarin.com

[melodeon]

Congratulations, very professional presentation.
This makes bandoneon playing accessible to more players.

Do you have a video playing the 3 row ?

Thanks

[Atzarin]

Melodeon,

Thanks for your comments! By "the 3 row" I take it you mean the Atzarin accordion. There's no video of me playing it. I've dedicated a lot of time to redesigning certain aspects of the bandoneon to use the Atzarin layout and the little free time I have left goes into learning how to play it. I've not spent any time practicing on the accordion.

Apart from the question of time, there is another reason I haven't been practicing on the accordion and that is to do with the left hand. On the bandoneon it's bisonoric, but on the accordion it's unisonoric. That means the choices, in terms of bellows reversals, although they can be exactly the same, in practice are usually different, with reversals being less practical on the accordion.

There is a video of Owen Woods playing it after having it for a trial period at:

http://melodeonmusic.com/2013/08/20/inside-and-out-part-7-the-atzarin-accordion/

The video is at the end of the article!

[stevejay]

http://atzarin.com/eng/scales/bandoneon/atzarin_bandonion_scale_patterns.html

Seems easy enough to get started. This was a clever way to demonstrate the scales to theory people and those who need more "hands on"

[melodeon]

" On the bandoneon it's bisonoric, but on the accordion it's bisonoric."

Did you mean "unisonoric" on the accordeon ?

Would dural or tipo a mano reeds make a measurable difference in the tone of the accordeon and do you think it would be worth doing ?

Is the +15 tuning standard and necessary or could the tremolo be reduced a bit?


When do you believe you would have the bandoneon available for purchase ?  Will it be made by H. Geuns or also made in the Czech Republic ?

[Atzarin]

Yes, that's right. On the Atzarin accordion the basses are unisonoric. Sorry for the typo!

As for the difference in tone using different kinds of reeds, I have no expertise in that area so I can only tell you what other people who do know a lot more than me about such things say, and that is yes, it would make a difference. What I can tell you from my limited technical knowledge is that it does make a difference easily measured in pounds and pence or dollars and cents.

The +15 was the standard tremolo that Delicia recommended. After hearing it, I decided that a drier sound wasn't necessary. The tremolo can be reduced a bit on the units I have in stock by retuning. Perhaps we could reach some agreement if that were the intention. New models made to order could be ordered with the desired reeds and tuning, of course. If you are in the United States and interested in having a trial period, let me know via private message.

It is currently not possible to answer your question about availability of the bandoneon at the moment. It will not be made in the Czech Republic, save a last minute change of mind by Delicia. Harry is my first choice, but there are still obstacles in the way of bringing out an affordable model and problems of scale too and Harry's workload etc.

[Jack Campin]

Wouldn't it be quite a bit easier to play if you extended it to a 4- or 5-row the same way as the CBA does it?

[Atzarin]

Easier? An extra row or two would certainly offer more fingering alternatives, but it would come with a cost, not just in terms of money. Originally, in my ignorance of the construction of the keyboard, I had wanted to be able to have 4 row CBA accordions modified to use the Atzarin system.

On CBA the fourth and fifth rows, the two inner rows nearest the bellows, are repeats of the first and second rows. The buttons on the first and fourth rows use the same levers. This is possible because the buttons for the repeated note are not far displaced from the same axis. So, on CBA, you can have repeated rows without having to add extra banks of reeds and extra levers.

On Atzarin, the button producing the repeated note is too far displaced from a common axis for it to be possible to use the same lever. An extra row would require extra reed blocks, reeds and levers, with consequent gains in the weight, size and cost of the instrument.

The bisonoricity of Atzarin offers the advantages of alternative fingerings that may be obtained from a fourth or fifth row on CBA. Another thing to consider is that generally people learning CBA are taught to play on three rows. That then makes it a doddle to transpose as you only need to change the row you start from, or the start button along the same row to play in any key. However, you have to put up with what is generally a bigger, more unwieldy instrument with very uncomfortable, cramped fingering involving crossing fingers over playing fingers in order to reach the next note and the hand contracting when changing from one diagonal to another.

All things considered, CBA is an excellent, though uncomfortable, system, so if you don't mind the extra bulk and weight, if you want to have 4 or 5 rows of buttons, you may as well just play CBA.

Atzarin offers alternative fingerings on just three rows by putting bisonoricity to good use with a movement of the hand in fingering that is similar to continental diatonic accordion cross row style. When changing from one diagonal to another, the hand expands and the fingers move away from each other. 3 rows is the minimum to have a neutral keyboard that can be used to play in any musical key with all notes available in both directions of the bellows. However, you have to be willing to let go of the desire to transfer fingering patterns already learnt on a 2 row and be ready to start from scratch.

[Atzarin]

Here's another video of my attempts on the Atzarin bandonion, playing standing up in order to demonstrate the grip and control the Esku Aske grips give over the instrument. This kind of technique, playing standing up, is talked about in the thread on the Hybrid Bandonion Review. Not wanting to generate further thread drift, I feel the video link is more appropriate here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FWYRglucg8

After murdering "Misty", by Errol Garner, I give a few rudimentary explanations about preparing to play a score and dealing with "extreme" notes, the 3 notes that are not repeated in the other direction of the bellows at each end of the keyboard. The bellows reversals in the bars leading up to and out of the bars containing these kinds of notes require special planning and may require notes to be assigned to each hand differently from the score, particularly when using a score written for piano or a lead sheet.

I've set myself the goal of producing a new video every 2 or 3 weeks explaining different aspects of the Atzarin bandonion and documenting my solitary learning process. At the moment, this instrument is unique, as there is only 1 in existence! So, it really is a lonesome journey I've embarked on. In the past I've been really impressed by the efforts of other, squeeze box players, who really can play their instruments, to blog about their progress with frequent and regular updates. Although I'd love to be able to do the same, I don't really have the time to blog, so these YouTube clips will have to suffice.

[Chris Brimley]

That sound is amazing, Sebastian. (And your playing pretty tidy too!) Your video immediately demonstrates the great power of the layout.  And I think it also shows that using the layout allows players to transfer quite easily from the button accordion to the bandonion.  I don't know anything about bandonions, but I can see the benefit of the grips.

I was also interested in your learning technique from lead sheets, which I recognise with my DGAcc accordion.  Is it correct to say that you always plan your playing from the LHS first, and then add RH melody, harmony and so on? That's my preferred method, and it appeared to be what you were doing in the explanation.

As you know, as a quint box player essentially I found it hard mentally to start learning again on the Atzarin button layout (though I wish I had started with it 40 years ago!)  How are you doing that, is there no substitute for a steep initial learning curve until you have memorised all the buttons in both push and pull?  Or do you perhaps somehow train yourself to think in one and a half tone intervals?  Or perhaps when you play one note, are you thinking where to go to the next one depending on the (isomorphic) pattern of intervals between buttons?  I can see that this potentially could be a powerful concept for playing in any key.

I had a thought about standing up playing - with a melodeon it is trying to keep the RHS rock solid that makes it difficult, but I guess with the bandonion it is finding a technique to support the weight of each end, without compromising your ability to move around the buttons, and you use your knee to support the middle.  How about having a fixed stand to support the middle of the bellows instead?  I know that in the early years of piano accordion playing, there was a music hall trickster who played one blindfold, with the RHS supported on a stand on the stage.

[Clive Williams]

That's pretty neat - have always loved the sound of the bandoneon, but been put off by the somewhat mad note layout they have. This makes a *lot* of sense, and is a good application for your keyboard layout.

[Atzarin]

Chris and Clive, thanks for your encouraging words!

Chris, I generally use lead sheets only for Jazz versions of tunes and sometimes for Tango too. However, I also use scores for bandoneon or for piano for tangos and classical music.

When I started out, I would play every phrase and motif in both directions of the bellows and choose the most comfortable one. At first I thought the priority would be the ease of the right hand part. However, I’ve come to realise that this approach is wrong and a terrible waste of time.

The fact that nearly all notes are repeated on the draw and on the push, can actually be a hinderance to fast preparation of a piece if you don’t have a system. Some phrases are equally comfortable on the push and on the pull, so how do you choose?

Having some notes available in only one direction would help, in a way, because you would have no choice but to just get on with it. So, choice needs to be limited, but systematically. I now work on pieces by assigning bellows directions according to the chords. As each note is repeated at a different button in a different row, the chord shape may different in each direction of the bellows. Chords may be formed entirely on one row, on two adjacent rows, on two non-adjacent rows, or on all three rows.

Priority is given to those shapes that are formed on adjacent rows or the more comfortable of the 2 possible options of 3 row shapes. Comfortable refers to things like not having to use the thumb on the third row or not having to pull the little finger under the ring finger. Those chords that have the same shape on both the draw and the push may be used in different directions in the same piece, depending on what they lead into or out of.

Another interesting thing is that chord inversions may be more comfortable in the opposite direction of the bellows! This is only the case when the chords are broadly voiced. In close voicing the inversions are equally comfortable. But when maintaining the bandoneon style of a very broad chords, inversions may be easier to play with a bellows reversal. Using this system A would normally be played on the draw, on rows 2 and 3, but A/C# in broad voicing c#, a and e, so the e is more than an octave above the c#, is more comfortable on the push, using the thumb to play c# on row 1.

The important thing is to bear in mind the row of the tonic note and the kind of shape the chord will have to decide whether to play it on the draw or on the push. After establishing the bellows reversals, I work out how to play the right hand. So, yes, now I start from the left hand first and then add the right hand.

I’ll answer your question about learning and note mapping in a future post.