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[ladydetemps]

I posted this in another thread, but thought it needed its own thread.
So those accidental buttons...I tend to not use them. Not even sure what they are or if they are flipped or not.
Should I learn to use them? What tunes would they be needed for? How do they 'fit' in? etc.

[strad]

To get the best out of your box then you should know where all the notes are. If you can't find any tunes which use the accidental notes then write a melody which uses them. Perhaps one at a time, so when you're happy with that one ,another tune is called for! This system of learning has certainly helped me with scales and triplets. Keep up the good work.

Nigel

[Stiamh]

Should you learn to use them? Seems to me there are two approaches: a) passive: only learn to use them when you want to learn a tune that requires them or b) active: set about exploring them and seek out tunes in which they are needed.

Which course you choose is a matter for you to decide, I would have thought.

[Theo]

write a melody which uses them.

it's said this is what JK was doing when writing Jump at the Sun in its original key of Gm.

Any tunes in Gm or Dm will use at least some of the accidentals.

[michik]

I use the the accidentals on a regular basis on my C/G

Tunes in A minor with E major (using #G)
Tunes in D minor (using Bb)

for Example:
"Les Mysteres de Paris" (in Amin using Bb, G#)
"Mazurka d'Antonin Bouskale (in Gmaj using G#,C#)
Mazurka "Arthur" by Eric Theye (in Dmin using Bb,Apush,Gpull)

Sometimes I'm using also the A push / G pull  (on 2row C/G only A pull / G push available)
Usually in Dmin tunes

Have fun: http://www.diatonia.net/pdf/533-Famous%20Wolf.pdf / http://www.diatonia.net/midi/533-Famous%20Wolf.mid

[ladydetemps]

So is it more a G/C melodeon thing to use the accidentals rather then D/G?

[michik]

So is it more a G/C melodeon thing to use the accidentals rather then D/G?

No .. on a D/G everthing is just a fifth higher

Example: a tune played on a C/G in A minor with G# and Bb as  accidentials
can be played on a D/G in E minor with D# and F as accidentials
with the same fingering (accidentals row must be the 'same', but a fifth higher)

[Thrupenny Bit]

I discoverd my flipped accidentals ( the other thread! ) simply by trying to start at C# ( below the D on the D scale ) and work up chromatically using every available button - therefore putting in the G#, Bb, Eb and F where appropriate. Not in a tune, but simply as a messing about exercise.
It can allow runs in tunes where you can run up -say - Bb,B,C,C# to D....I'm thinking of ( Primrose or Bluebell? one of those polkas!) where on the English if I've time can run up through. I think it was DTN's vids I was looking at and thought about chromatic things.
I'll probably go back to sleep and forget about them tomorrow......but it was fun thinking 
Q in need of 

[Anahata]

There's a number of different places where you need accidentals.
(1) sometimes just for ornamentation. This is entirely optional. Includes grace notes and flashy chromatic runs.
(2) As accidentals i.e. where a tune has an occasional  note that's not on the scale of the main key of the tune.
(3) To play the box in other keys. E.g. on a D/G box you can play some tunes in C with the help of at F natural; in A you can use the G#; some E minor tunes are classical-style minor, not Dorian mode and need a D#

Lots of tunes don't need any accidentals and some melodeons don't have them at all.
You don't need to worry about it until you encounter something that needs them.
There's always something that can't be played on any melodeon, howver many buttons it's got.

[Gary P Chapin]

There's always something that can't be played on any melodeon, howver many buttons it's got.

I actually find that to be a comfort.

Anyway, I've always learned through repertoire.  I fell for a tune and then just did what the tune needed.  This got more complicated when I played with other people (always a mistake  ), and they expected me to actually get to the G#.  When I got my 2 and a half row I wrote melodies that needed the accidentals, but it always sounded obvious, like, "Hey, this is the bit where I play accidentals."  I'm a good tune finder, not a great tune writer.  Except there was a time when I had a student who was resisting facility on the basses, so I wrote a waltz that used every bass and chord on his (8-bass) box.  (http://www.youtube.com/user/Accordeonaire#p/u/17/_7mGfKjb88U)

So I'm all for learning in a relaxed way through the tunes, unless you're a student of mine.  In which case, I crack the whip.

[Sandy]

Jiggery Pokerwork introduced me to accidentals. One accidental is used quite a lot in the B part so is good practice in itself. Very weird when you first use it, I had to work it out very slowly. Two or more different accidentals turns you into a puppeteer. Dance of the Demon Daffodils and Liberty Bell spring to mind 

It won't feel natural (if you pardon the pun) to use them at first but will do with time.

cheers
Sandy
 

[ladydetemps]

Very weird when you first use it, I had to work it out very slowly. Two or more different accidentals turns you into a puppeteer. Dance of the Demon Daffodils and Liberty Bell spring to mind 

It won't feel natural (if you pardon the pun) to use them at first but will do with time.

Sandy your the queen of accidentals.

Jiggery Pokerwork introduced me to accidentals. One accidental is used quite a lot in the B part so is good practice in itself.

I keep hitting the wrong button in the wrong direction or playing the natural by mistake.

Usually I see a tune with an accidental and go get the concertina out. lol!

[mglamb]

The late, great Nick Robertshaw (a master of the Jeffries duet concertina) once told me that all one needs to do in order to learn a tune is to find out what buttons need to be pressed and in what order and then to do so.  Using the accidentals on a melodeon is no different than using the accidentals on an anglo, outside rows on an English, keys on woodwinds, etc. - they are just notes that you use when and as needed.  BTW, you'll never play Greensleeves without them...

[Bill the Farmer]

BTW, you'll never play Greensleeves without them...

Oh yes you can 

[Lester]

<snip>
Using the accidentals on a melodeon is no different than using the accidentals on an anglo, outside rows on an English, keys on woodwinds, etc. - they are just notes that you use when and as needed. 
</snip>

Couldn't agree more - using the accidentals on a melodeon is no different to using any other button on a melodeon. If you need a note that that button generates you have to press it. Yes they are in a odd place but so is a  C# if you are playing on the G Row.

I am more and more convinced that, if you are not a genius like DTN, it is worth the bother of finding out and learning what button does what on your box.

http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/page,keyboard.html

[mglamb]

I am more and more convinced that, if you are not a genius like DTN, it is worth the bother of finding out and learning what button does what on your box.

Absolutely agree with this!  In fact, when I mapped the keyboard of my Beltuna 3-row, it became a 3-page document - master layout, press notes, and draw notes.  Having separate pages with just press or draw notes really helps in learning the keyboard and simplifies working out chords, runs, etc.

http://gallery.me.com/marcglamb#100182

[ladydetemps]

<snip>
Using the accidentals on a melodeon is no different than using the accidentals on an anglo, outside rows on an English, keys on woodwinds, etc. - they are just notes that you use when and as needed. 
</snip>

Couldn't agree more - using the accidentals on a melodeon is no different to using any other button on a melodeon. If you need a note that that button generates you have to press it. Yes they are in a odd place but so is a  C# if you are playing on the G Row.

I am more and more convinced that, if you are not a genius like DTN, it is worth the bother of finding out and learning what button does what on your box.

http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/page,keyboard.html

My brain can handle going over to the D row from G row for the extra sharp....but going to the top just feels...wrong.

[michik]

My brain can handle going over to the D row from G row for the extra sharp....but going to the top just feels...wrong.

no cross-row playing ?
The accidentials are not a big deal when you are used to play across the rows

For me there is no such a thing like a "G-row", "C-row" and a accidentials row. I see the rows as unified button field, where
the notes in the outer two rows incidentally happen to be in one key and the innermost rows contains
notes not available in the other rows.
Sure I play some tunes on the C row or G Row only .. I do this to get a certain effect ...
for example for tunes from the Auvergne (France)

[Tufty]

I learn tunes that take my fancy and as luck would have it very few seem to need accidentals! One exception is the third part of "Nelly the Elephant", which perhaps says something about me??

[Thrupenny Bit]

My biggest problem when using accidentals is actually reaching them.
I started a thread ' thumb v's fingers ' a while back to try and find out how people use them ( finger stretch v's thumb bash ). I think the answer is it depends on your hand size.
I discovered 1 person ( Sandy? ) played using a thumb on one box, and finger on another and in answer to the thread twigged one of the melodeons was a 3rd note start the other 4th note, so the 4th note was too much of a stretch so used the thumb.
As said, they don't really matter, they sit there quite happily and occasionally like to be played so's not to feel too left out!

Hmmmm..... ( goes off to dig out 'Jump to the Sun' )
 
Q