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Author Topic: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c  (Read 9986 times)

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tedrick

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2011, 11:32:06 PM »

yes  :'(
I like what you've shared - it's got that warm, round dry, "nutty" sound -- not sharp/nasal/jagged



« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 11:35:19 PM by Reeds Munson »
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Keithypete.

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2011, 03:24:32 PM »

Hi Reeds, I like sound of the D/D# Cairdin - is that how you will have yours tuned? Hopefully you'll get yours sorted. I'm sure it will only be something minor. I'm sure Cairdin would welcome any feedback too.

 My Sara was much, much drier when I bought it new, but it didn't sound anything like Iain Stephenson's Cairdin. Different reeds - different box.

 By the way - NICE JIGS.
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Theo

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2011, 03:33:03 PM »

Hi Reeds, I like sound of the D/D# Cairdin - is that how you will have yours tuned?

Sorry my mistake,  I said Ian's Cairdin was DD#,  it actually C#/D, but the tune is played in Eb.
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tedrick

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2011, 03:03:22 AM »

Hi Theo -
feel free to move this over to Makes and Models if this is getting away from the Recordings and Videos category --

I had a breakthrough tonight - After reading Theo's description of that Cairdin he tuned dry by tuning each set in perfect unison, I thought to myself, "why not try hearing what the box sounds like if I tape off one set of reeds?"

The results of the test are very pleasing! I have found that the round, flutey, woody sound I'm after is a single reed!

a couple sound samples:

2 slip jigs

3 jigs

same tunes as the earlier vids (previous vids were as the box is normally - 2 voices)


Now the question is:

1.) live with the box with one voice taped off
2.) have the box tuned to get close to perfect unison
3.) look into having a stop installed to switch between one voice and both voices
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Andrew Culwell

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2011, 03:24:40 AM »

Reed,
I think it's a waste to tape off one voice when you can just have the box tuned unison.  Just my opinion, I know that really dry sound is what your going for so two voices tuned in unison gives you twice the volume.  Then again you could have a switch placed that allows you to switch to a nice tremolo when you want to play tremolo.  Might be a nice combination.  What I'm hearing you say is that in a matter of a few months you have decided to go from the full Chorus 4 voice sound of the 4 voice Paolo to a "single voice" concertina style tuning.  Quite an evolution of sound there!

--Drew
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Stiamh

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2011, 12:59:31 PM »

I'd add a step 4): Get the box properly set up so that it doesn't buzz. I have what I think is the same model as you, it doesn't buzz, it's not tuned unison, and it's a great little box.

Having a stop installed will be complicated because as I understand it a reed block will have to be modified to allow a slider to run underneath it. Single-voice? Haven't listened to your vids but what a waste of the accordion's potential.

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2011, 05:02:10 PM »

As Reed already knows, I am a bit less scrupulous about tuning ;D but I just wanted to chime in to agree with Steve. One could reduce the sound to a concertina but it seems a waste of a good box.
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tedrick

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2011, 03:48:59 PM »

Hi Guys -
well, I'm going to give it a try - I'm going to try the brace idea -

interestingly, on the note that sounds the funkiest - A in the middle of the keyboard - I have these tuning measurements:

reed set 1:
A4
-1      (approx. 1 cent low)
439.7   (measured freq.)
-0.3   (amount below concert pitch)

reed set 2:
A4
+8        (approx 8 cents high)
442.2   (measured freq.)
2.2        (amount above concert pitch)



I wonder if that 8 cents is causing the funkiness?

other than tuning - perhaps there is some sympathetic resonance causing the fuzzy/buzzyness from about low D to middle B

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Lester

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2011, 04:30:28 PM »

The difference is 9 cents which may be fine but that would depend on whether it is fitting in with the differences of the surrounding notes.

tedrick

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2011, 05:13:45 PM »

copying and pasting from excel - hopefully this is legible:

Reed Set 1               Reed Set 2         
   C row push            C row push         
   E4   -2   329.2   -0.4   E4   -14   163.4   -1.4
   G3   -1   195.9   -0.1   G3   1   196.2   0.2
   C4   0   261.8      C4   4   262.4   0.8
   E4   -2   329.2   -0.4   E4   2   330   0.4
   G4   -1   391.6   -0.4   G4   3   392.8   0.9
   C5   -3   522.1   -1.1   C5   5   524.9   1.7
   E5   0   659.1      E5   1   660   0.7
   G5   -3   782.6   -1.4   G5   0   783.6   -0.4
   C6   0   1046.8      C6   4   1049.3   2.8
   E6   -3   1316.2   -2.3   E6   1   1319.5   1
   C row pull            C row pull         
   A3   -4   219.4   -0.6   A3   2   220.4   0.4
   B3   -2   246.6   -0.3   B3   0   246.9   0
   D4   -3   293.1   -0.6   D4   2   294.1   0.4
   F4   -1   348.9   -0.4   F4   2   349.6   0.4
   A4   -1   439.7   -0.3   A4   8   442.2   2.2
   B4   -5   492.2   -1.7   B4   1   494.3   0.4
   D5   -5   585.5   -1.8   D5   -1   586.7   -0.7
   F5   -8   695.2   -3.2   F5   0   698.5   0
   A5   -2   878.8   -1.2   A5   2   881.3   1.3
   B5   -5   984.6   -3.1   B5   0   987.2   -0.5


I've added an attachment of a screen shot - probably easier to read -
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 05:18:10 PM by Reeds Munson »
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Lester

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2011, 05:45:43 PM »

I have extracted the cents info from your table and calculated the differences for each note. These normally decrease gently as you go up in tone but as you can see your are all over the place. It looks as if your box needs a severe talking too by a tuner.

           Reed 1      Reed 2      Difference   
   E3      -2      -14      12   
   G3      -1      1      2   
   A3      -4      2      6   
   B3      -2      0      2   
   C4      0      4      4   
   D4      -3      2      5   
   E4      -2      2      4   
   F4      -1      2      3   
   G4      -1      3      4   
   A4      -1      8      9   
   B4      -5      1      6   
   C5      -3      5      8   
   D5      -5      -1      4   
   E5      0      1      1   
   F5      -8      0      8   
   G5      -3      0      3   
   A5      -2      2      4   
   B5      -5      0      5   
   C6      0      4      4   
   E6      -3      1      4   

tedrick

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2011, 03:16:08 PM »

full report - free radicals tend to be in the middle* possibly contributing to the funkiness in the middle range

            
C row push  1    2   Difference
   E   -2   -14   12
   G   -1   1   2
   C   0   4   4
   E   -2   2   4
   G   -1   3   4
   C   -3   5   8*
   E   0   1   1
   G   -3   0   3
   C   0   4   4
   E   -3   1   4
C row pull         
   A   -4   2   6
   B   -2   0   2
   D   -3   2   5
   F   -1   2   3
   A   -1   8   9*
   B   -5   1   6
   D   -5   -1   4
   F   -8   0   8
   A   -2   2   4
   B   -5   0   5
B row push      
   Eb   0   3   3
   F#   2   0   2
   B   -3   0   3
   Eb   0   4   4
   F#   2   6   4
   B   1   5   4
   Eb   0   4   4
   F#   -5   0   5
   B   -2   1   3
   Eb   -3   0   3
   D   -2   0   2
B row pull         
   G#   0   0   0
   Bb   -2   0   2
   C#   0   2   2
   E   -1   1   2
   G#   -4   9   13*
   Bb   2   10   8
   C#   -2   0   2
   E   -4   -1   3
   G#   0   4   4
   Bb   -3   3   6
   C#   -1   0   1
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waltzman

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2011, 03:28:08 PM »

As Lester said, if those readings are accurate it appears that your whole box is out of tune not just a few funky notes.
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Stiamh

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2011, 06:11:43 PM »

I wonder if that 8 cents is causing the funkiness?

I had the tuning on my Cairdin checked by our member, melodona, using Dirk's tuner. It was a pretty constant 8 cents throughout the middle range and it sounds great to my ear.

Theo

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2011, 09:22:10 AM »

I wonder if that 8 cents is causing the funkiness?

I had the tuning on my Cairdin checked by our member, melodona, using Dirk's tuner. It was a pretty constant 8 cents throughout the middle range and it sounds great to my ear.

The sound that Reeds liked,  Ian Stephenson's Cairdin is 0 cents difference throughout the range.
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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2011, 04:14:53 PM »

Reeds,

What do I know, but I think the only way you'll get close to the sound you want is to have the reeds unison tuned. I also think, though, that Cairdin is not building their boxes for a woody, flutey sound. The Cairdins I've seen and played tend to be loud and raucous sounding which cuts better in a band or session setting. They tend to be a little heavy and very solidly made which may go against woody and flutey. Talk with Michael and see what he says about mellowing out the sound. Have you played the box with the grill off? That may help. I hope you figure it out. Cairdins play great.
 
Joe
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tedrick

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2011, 08:09:59 PM »

Hey guys - would just like to report back that I got the Mini back from Michael Usui down at Irish Dancemaster today - he tuned it unison and it sounds just the way I want it!

I'll put some vids up to show how it sounds now that the tuning is where I want it --
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tedrick

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2011, 06:05:51 PM »

Hi Guys -
Here's a comparison of the demi swing Dancemaster with the unison tuned Cairdin -

http://youtu.be/eyLuHUP2VEQ


I'm very happy with how Michael tuned the Cairdin - it sounds the way I wanted it to --

I really like both boxes - I would say demi gives that proper traditional accordion sound while dry tuning gives the box a more jazzy/contemporary sound -

I can only afford to be a one box guy though, so the Dancemaster which was on loan to me from Michael is going back to Florida on Monday --
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Gromit

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2011, 06:15:01 PM »

Thanks Reeds that was interesting - my preference is for the dry tuned Cairdin it souns great especially for solo stuff and nice playing again, are you self taught and do you play in sessions?

All the best

John
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Cairdin Mini Deluxe 21 b/c
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2011, 06:33:25 PM »

Reeds, I've been pretty much blown away by your vids, and I'm learning so much from them so please keep them coming. I generally prefer the wetter tuned boxes, though sometimes that burbling dry-tuned sound is just so right!
Regards, AL
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