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Author Topic: Right-hand thumb position  (Read 6584 times)

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WendyG

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Right-hand thumb position
« on: March 19, 2011, 01:25:45 PM »

Okay, I know I shouldn't, but I keep my thumb behind the keyboard.  On my Salterelle isn't too much of an issue, but I have just bought another melodeon (it was cheap) and it has a much thicker keyboard.  The problem is, if I place my thumb in the grove of the keyboard I have problems playing tunes, as it feels totally wrong.  Is it a matter of perseverance, and it will become second nature to use the groove or doesn't it really matter where the thumb is kept.  I am trying to learn 'The Tenpenny Bit' which means that I have to stretch from A at the top of the keyboard to A about 7 buttons down the keyboard, so I need to move my hand downwards.  If the thumb was in the groove it would probably be easier, but it just fees so 'alien'.
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george garside

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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2011, 02:06:11 PM »

Okay, I know I shouldn't, but I keep my thumb behind the keyboard.  

If it works why not!  - its fine for on the row playing but may restrict movement when indulging in a lot of cross rowing.



   The problem is, if I place my thumb in the grove of the keyboard I have problems playing tunes, as it feels totally wrong.  Is it a matter of perseverance, and it will become second nature to use the groove

 probably yes!



 .  If the thumb was in the groove it would probably be easier, but it just fees so 'alien'.

probably yes and yes! but it does become very natural and allows easy hand as well as finger movement.


george
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2011, 03:21:53 PM »

Personally, I sometimes play with my thumb behind the keyboard and sometimes using the thumb groove (if there is one). I haven't really thought much about why, but on reflection I suppose it's probably in the tunes that demand more digital dexterity that I use the thumb-groove.  I'm a great believer in economy of movement in the right hand - I can never see why so many players lift their fingers way above the buttons and then stab them down - with any luck on the right button. Seems like wasted energy to me. And I never, EVER use a thumbstrap. Not even on a good old plastic-keyboarded Hohner 1-row.

Graham
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Bob Ellis

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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2011, 03:46:06 PM »

Personally, I always use the thumb groove because it seems to make reaching up and down the keyboard easier. However, John Kirkpatrick, I believe, plays with his thumb behind behind the board and manages to play quite well ;) using that method, even when stretching to the ends of the keyboard, so it must be possible.

Nevertheelss, I suspect that for mere mortals the thumb in the groove would be a better idea. I think it is just a matter of practice: you will soon get used to it.
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Rob2Hook

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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2011, 05:10:50 PM »

I've noticed a lot of people who use both methods, e.g. belting out morris tunes with the thumb behind the keyboard for a better grip and more percussive way of playing.  More complex tunes bring the thumb onto the edge and the playing is much quieter and smoother.

JK could probably play with his thumbs tucked in his braces, his hands are so large!

Rob.
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ladydetemps

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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2011, 05:14:22 PM »

I find I use different grips for different boxes, with different no.s of straps. Also what row I'm using and what type of tune I'm playing. Most of the time though I go for thumb behind keyboard.

Graham Spencer

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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2011, 08:25:11 PM »

I've noticed a lot of people who use both methods, e.g. belting out morris tunes with the thumb behind the keyboard for a better grip and more percussive way of playing.  More complex tunes bring the thumb onto the edge and the playing is much quieter and smoother.

JK could probably play with his thumbs tucked in his braces, his hands are so large!

Rob.

I'm not sure the "thumb behind" position necessarily means "more percussive".  I do generally play morris tunes this way simply because it's a more secure position when you're playing standing up; but I don't see percussiveness (percussivity?) as a prerequisite for morris. As I've mentioned elsewhere here, I feel it's important to differentiate between the styles of different traditions.  Yes, Headington or Bucknell, for instance, need plenty of attack, but the more fluid styles of, say, the Wychwood Forest need a far lighter and sensitive touch - which can equally well be achieved with the thumb behind. Incidentally, I have quite small hands - as a bass player I struggle with a double bass while I am quite happy with my beloved Fender Jazz.........

Graham
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Owen Woods

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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2011, 10:19:07 PM »

Different tunes and different parts of tunes require different grips. It's probably worth getting to know the thumb on groove grip, even if you find it not quite right. I didn't either but now use it quite a lot.
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Ollie

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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2011, 10:23:18 PM »

I've noticed a lot of people who use both methods, e.g. belting out morris tunes with the thumb behind the keyboard for a better grip and more percussive way of playing.  More complex tunes bring the thumb onto the edge and the playing is much quieter and smoother.

I fall firmly in this category. If I want to belt something out, my thumb goes behind because the palm of my hand pumps against the keyboard. Thumb on the side allows for more accurate playing and cross rowing.
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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2011, 10:31:39 PM »

Sometimes I use my thumb playing seconds so I definitely won't keep the thumb behind the keyboard.
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Alan Morley

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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2011, 08:47:15 AM »


'Clipped'
 And I never, EVER use a thumbstrap. Not even on a good old plastic-keyboarded Hohner 1-row.

Graham

Does anyone use a thumbstrap ?

I had one on my Erica and also my Excelsior ISIS, but they anchor your hand in one position and make things a lot harder to reach buttons in my opinion. I left them on for a while and didn't use them - finally getting rid...

Do all boxes come with a thumbstrap, I have never taken any notice ?

Similar subject:
I have never played a one-row - do they have a wrist strap on the bass side ?

Alan
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 08:49:54 AM by Almo2504 »
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2011, 10:00:43 AM »

Quote
Does anyone use a thumbstrap ?
Yep, I do! 'specially when playing a box with only one shoulder strap. When sitting down it's not a problem but I play standing up mainly and so prefer the extra support that the thumbstrap gives me.
AL
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Tufty

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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2011, 10:11:18 AM »

I think one row is a different beast and requires a different technique. Oscar Woods used a thumb strap as did Tufty Swift . In the sleeve notes to "How to make a Bakewell Tart" he wrote "I would always recommend using a thumb strap ... as I think it adds to the rhythmic qualities of the instrument". All the cajun players I have seen also use one. So for me: one row=thumbstrap, standing (morris)=behind the finger board, sitting down=thumb groove. In the end who cares, its whatever works for the individual.
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diatosoldo

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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2011, 10:55:48 AM »

Okay, I know I shouldn't, but I keep my thumb behind the keyboard. 

I had a medical consultation in Paris (see below) a  few weeks ago :

http://www.medecine-des-arts.com/La-posture-du-musicien.html

(they were 4 persons : a hand surgeon, a rhumatologist, a general doctor, a physiotherapist, cost 25 € for joining their non profit making organization)

They told me the position with thumb behind keyboard was far much better for the right hand than the position on the groove ...
They proposed me a series of consultations with a physiotherapist (specialised for musicians) for learning a new way of playing.
I will tell you when I've finished !
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Peter_T

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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2011, 11:35:29 AM »

Okay, I know I shouldn't, but I keep my thumb behind the keyboard. 

I had a medical consultation in Paris (see below) a  few weeks ago : ...  They told me the position with thumb behind keyboard was far much better for the right hand than the position on the groove ...

Ah, interesting. Wonder why. Must see what I actually do. No groove, trying  to avoid the 'Morris Player's Hook', so I think thumb's loosely against outer, narrow edge of keyboard.
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Anahata

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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2011, 02:15:36 PM »

a hand surgeon, a rhumatologist, a general doctor, a physiotherapist...
told me the position with thumb behind keyboard was far much better for the right hand than the position on the groove ...

Not convinced.
I played my pokerwork that way for a whole Mayday Jack in the Green procession in London once and my hand was in agony for the rest of the day afterwards. I've very rarely used that hand position since.

As for thumbstraps I do use them on a 1-row, as well as a shoulder strap. I think it helps me locate my hand in the right position on the keyboard but it's not used for pulling against the bellows. I don't know how some one-row players manage with a thumbstrap only.
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Howard Jones

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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2011, 03:39:27 PM »

My Salterelle has a groove but I don't use it.  I find I prefer to have the thumb on the edge of the keyboard.  As I play with the box tilted away from me slightly I find this gives me a better angle to push against the pressure of the bellows.  Sometimes for a bit of extra 'oomph' I'll grip behind the keyboard, but usually I find this restricts my fingers too much, especially on the D row.

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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2011, 04:47:15 PM »

I wonder if the choices are decided by what you orginally use when you first pick up the box?
This would be your 'natural' grip, decided by you subconsciously....... or maybe decided by you with the first learning session.
I seem to anchor my thumb well and truely along the goove. I cannot remember making a decision to do this, even though I'm newly started in August I can't remember why I chose this. It's most probably on strict orders from my daughter after she attended a workshop at Chippenham last May. She was also told not to use the thumb strap!
How and why are lost forever........ but it seems totally natural to me.
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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2011, 05:06:56 PM »

That would be on the strict orders of Ed Rennie, then! Which I too obey, naturally. Except on the one-row, which doesn't have shoulder straps and is light enough to play on the thumb strap.
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Re: Right-hand thumb position
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2011, 05:19:23 PM »

those doctors told me that a position with all the 4 little round bones (I don't know the exact name of those bones, even in french .. but could I say those bones are situated at the place where the fingers end and where the palm begins ?) ... well well ...   ::)  let's sum up :
they said thus that a position with those bones at a same level in an horizontal line was better than a position with the little finger LOWER than the others, the latter position being obviously frequent as far as I'm concerned (particularly when playing high notes) if my thumb is on the groove. According to them, playing this way could bring pain in 4th and 5th fingers (which was the reason of my consulting them).
This reminded me piano lessons (long ago ..) and the way my hands were on the piano keyboard, fingers equal and steady ... and that prompted me to be convinced.
Anyway I'll have some sessions with that physiotherapist and I'll tell you if I find any improvement or not.
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