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Author Topic: A remarkable Discovery  (Read 4541 times)

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ChrisLDD

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A remarkable Discovery
« on: March 23, 2011, 11:14:22 PM »

Hi,

My family gave me a melodeon for Christmas, which was odd because I’ve never considered myself to have any musical ability, knowledge, or inclination for that matter. I never liked music lessons at school and from those early experiences I’ve grown up thinking music to be somewhat akin to the black arts, and as for its practitioners, well …
The day after Boxing Day, during a quiet moment, when the guests had finally left, but the Christmas spirit was still flowing; I duly picked up the box and decided to give it a squeeze. It was then that I made the most remarkable discovery: playing the melodeon is fun! To me this was a revelation that I never thought to experience, to be able produce a sequence of sounds that could almost approximate to music - two months later, if anything, I’m enjoying it even more.  My daughters think it’s hilarious: “Dad … you wait until you’re in your fifties to discover music - duh-uh!”  But there you go, just when you think you’ve got life all figured out, and are getting comfortable with you’re lot, and can allocate you're time accordingly, fate comes along and pops a melodeon in your hands!
Anyway there’s something that’s been bothering me and I just have to ask: why is it push-pull, push-pull, push-pull, pull-push?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 11:24:45 PM by ChrisLaDiDah »
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Stiamh

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2011, 11:24:25 PM »

Welcome Chris and long may the fun continue.

To answer your question, it's an inconvenient fact (at least for the designers of diatonic squeezeboxes) that the diatonic scale (ordinary major scale, if you like) contains seven notes. (The eighth, the octave, is a repeat of the first note and so doesn't count.) Do-re mi-fa sol-la  & ti = 7.

Seven doesn't divide into two... so this poses a dilemma. You can't keep the same pairs of notes on the same buttons in different octaves unless you either double a note (waste of space) or miss one out (obviously unacceptable).

Adding the extra pull note on the seventh brings you back onto push for the octave of the tonic. This means that all the push notes are components of the basic major chord of the scale. Grab any handful of buttons anywhere on the same row of the keyboard, and squeeze the bellows closed... harmony!

If you didn't disturb the pull-push sequence for the seventh note, then in the second octave your push notes wouldn't be in the chord, and I suggest any confusion you may feel about the conventional layout would be multiplied a hundredfold.

I'm sure someone else can explain all this better in one tenth of the words I've used, but maybe this is a start.

Cheers
Steve
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 11:29:22 PM by Steve Jones »
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michik

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2011, 11:30:43 PM »

On G row you have:

Code: [Select]
Push:    G B D G B D G B D G B D G B D
Pull:    A C E F#A C E F#A C E F#A C E            

Therefore, when you play a G major scale you have
... push D, pull E, pull F#, push G ...
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ChrisLDD

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2011, 11:39:02 PM »

Steve, thank you.

Your explanation is really helpful. I understand now … and about the handful of notes and harmonies, yeah I noticed that.
I wish I’d asked sooner - it's only been bothering me for two months!
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george garside

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2011, 10:22:26 AM »

Chris - have sent you a personal message
george
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Theo

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2011, 10:27:06 AM »

 My daughters think it’s hilarious: “Dad … you wait until you’re in your fifties to discover music - duh-uh!”  

An excellent time to open a new chapter in your life.  It worked for me. ;D  Sceptical daughters are great to have around, you will be completely unable to get a false impression of how good you are. :o
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Chris Brimley

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2011, 10:59:15 AM »

Quote
Sceptical daughters

I have those!

Quote
you will be completely unable to get a false impression of how good you are. 
 

Or indeed anything which might be taken as approval, whatsoever. :(
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savantuk

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2011, 11:26:44 AM »

My sceptical daughter hates it, but my as yet innocent grandson just screams, giggles and dances ;D  To the disgust of my daughter, I bought him a Tobar mini at christmas (though to be honest it does sound dischordant), and he loves it.

Never too early to start learning!
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Regards,

Doug

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Bob Ellis

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2011, 11:50:03 AM »

My sceptical daughter hates it, but my as yet innocent grandson just screams, giggles and dances ;D  To the disgust of my daughter, I bought him a Tobar mini at christmas (though to be honest it does sound dischordant), and he loves it.

If your grandson loves discordant, buy him a banjo!  >:E
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2011, 09:59:59 PM »

' you will be completely unable to get a false impression of how good you are.....'

Ahhhh..... you as well. ::)

Plus comments like " oh no.....not that tune *again*...."
errr.... yes, it's called 'practising' ....and unknown concept to them.
I keep reminding my youngest that all this classical stuff is ok, all she has to do is play her instrument, whilst I've got to do that *and* memorise then play from memory....
Still, love 'em to bits despite grumplings from their bedroom!!!!!!
hey ho
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

savantuk

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2011, 11:21:07 PM »

My sceptical daughter hates it, but my as yet innocent grandson just screams, giggles and dances ;D  To the disgust of my daughter, I bought him a Tobar mini at christmas (though to be honest it does sound dischordant), and he loves it.

If your grandson loves discordant, buy him a banjo!  >:E

Aw, c'mon, he's only two this month - a banjo would be bigger than him!!
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Regards,

Doug

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Theo

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2011, 08:12:03 AM »


Plus comments like " oh no.....not that tune *again*...."


That is an excellent comment, it can only mean that (a) you are playing a recognisable tune and (b) the offspring are listening

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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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ladydetemps

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2011, 09:13:29 AM »

My sceptical daughter hates it, but my as yet innocent grandson just screams, giggles and dances ;D  To the disgust of my daughter, I bought him a Tobar mini at christmas (though to be honest it does sound dischordant), and he loves it.

If your grandson loves discordant, buy him a banjo!  >:E

Aw, c'mon, he's only two this month - a banjo would be bigger than him!!
Banj-a-lele?

Peter_T

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2011, 11:54:15 AM »

....
Anyway there’s something that’s been bothering me and I just have to ask: why is it push-pull, push-pull, push-pull, pull-push?


Others have given better answers, but my stock reply for the Hohner D/G Pokerwork is that it was invented by an engineer.  This may even be true.
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Anahata

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2011, 02:16:21 PM »

Others have given better answers, but my stock reply for the Hohner D/G Pokerwork is that it was invented by an engineer.  This may even be true.

The push pull system is called Richter tuning, after Josheph Richter who seems to have been an instrument maker.
Hmm, lots of interesting stuff there that I didn't know...
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Peter_T

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2011, 03:44:32 PM »

Others have given better answers, but my stock reply for the Hohner D/G Pokerwork is that it was invented by an engineer.  This may even be true.

The push pull system is called Richter tuning, after Josheph Richter who seems to have been an instrument maker.
Hmm, lots of interesting stuff there that I didn't know...


And using each button for two notes should reduce the size of keyboard needed, although I'd expect - perhaps wrongly - the weight of the reed-blocks if not of the chassis or bellows to remain similar.

Once carried a large piano-accordion in its case from pub to the car for a lady I know, a mere 200 yards or so. She is quite tall, and after I struggled carrying it I realised why she has a bad back.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 03:46:05 PM by Peter_T »
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2011, 05:29:35 PM »

Theo: Had never looked at it like that.....
thank you for pointing it out. It's cheered me up  ;D
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Peter_T

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2011, 05:37:29 PM »

Theo: Had never looked at it like that.....
thank you for pointing it out. It's cheered me up  ;D
Q

It's so nice when people start recognising what you think you're playing. Mixed with a recognition that earlier efforts weren't ...
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2011, 05:42:17 PM »

Indeed!
Progress is a wonderful thing  ;)
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Gary

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Re: A remarkable Discovery
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2011, 11:43:37 PM »

That is the feeling when visitors to the hotel where we have our fortnightly sessions come upstairs to listen,last week we were just 3, me on the pokerwork with a guitar and fiddle joining in. A lady was astonished that we had never played together before .so its something we take for granted at times.
And on topic, I started a bit later inlife, praticing that is.
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