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Author Topic: Did Ya Ever Have One Of Those DUH Moments?  (Read 2967 times)

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RoyFromGeorgia

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Did Ya Ever Have One Of Those DUH Moments?
« on: July 30, 2008, 11:49:14 PM »

I play at a 23 button B/C accordion and took the Button Accordion class at Swannanoa with Martin Quinn.  During his "Pot Luck" he took his accordion apart and showed us what the innards looked like.  He also tuned a reed for us.  It was very cool!  I told him that I wished that I had high D to complete the second octave D scale.  He asked "Doesn't yours have it?.  Mine does."  He re-tuned his high F# to D so he has the high D on the push.  DUH.  It never crossed my mind that I could change the tuning of the treble side!  I don't think that I have ever played that F# though I have played the C# underneath it and re-tuning it to D makes perfect sense. 
He also explained that his bass layout had only 3rds and 5ths and he plays them as a Uilleann Piper plays his regulators.  I wish that I had gotten his bass layout!  DUH.

Roy
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TomB-R

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Re: Did Ya Ever Have One Of Those DUH Moments?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2008, 09:28:57 AM »

He's a lovely player, I like the cd of him and Angelina C a lot.
(Not expensive direct from them at www.reeltrad.com )
Some very nice clips of the two of them at comhaltas.ie too.

Does anyone else know the detail of his bass layout?
(I guess you mean you wish you'd taken the details rather than that you already had that layout Roy,
"gotten" is not used much around here!  ;D )
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Stiamh

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Re: Did Ya Ever Have One Of Those DUH Moments?
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2008, 02:35:57 PM »

I could be wrong, but I think Roy means he wished his box had come with that bass layout. (The Brits may have forgotten that "gotten" is a past participle of get, but the Americans haven't.) 

Roy, I think most inside-out halfstep box players will have one of your moments of revelation after playing for a while when they inevitably realize that they have several useless notes on the outer row and a few useful ones missing. On the other hand accordion makers supplying the Irish market (50 years after the inside-out style took over), don't seem to have cottoned on to this. They're the ones who ought to be going "Duh!"
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DaveCottrell

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Re: Did Ya Ever Have One Of Those DUH Moments?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2008, 03:28:37 PM »

Speaking as an inside out player myself  (BC), I would rather keep the outside row the way it is, as it allows for playing in other keys than the home ones. I play a lot of Balkan and Scandinavian tunes, and  I frequently need my Bb, Ab, Eb and press B . What I wish were more available, a la John Williams, is a few accidentals on a third inside row, such as a Draw F# and a press A.  It drives me nuts that I cannot play an F# and a D together!!

I have a 3 reed Hohner club accordion that I have been wanting to convert to BC with accidentals. I have already planned a layout for the third row.  However, working on other people's instruments takes precedence over my own projects.  The cobbler's kids have no shoes, etc etc.

Granted, the players in the Irish market very rarely stray from the canon of tunes in D, G, A. Very rarely does a tune in  G minor or F major rear its head,as string players inevitably stop and look puzzled and the guitarist panics as his capo falls to the floor.

As to the original post, I have a Saltarelle Shamrock with 25 trebles. It has the very high D. I seldom need it in normal (session and ceilidh) playing.

edited to remove unnecessary snarkiness
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 12:27:38 AM by DaveCottrell »
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Stiamh

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Re: Did Ya Ever Have One Of Those DUH Moments?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2008, 04:10:22 PM »

Granted, the players in the Irish market very rarely stray from the canon of tunes in D, G, A. Very rarely does a tune in  G minor or F major rear its head,as string players inevitably stop and look puzzled and the guitarist panics as his capo falls to the floor.

Dave, I find that strange. In my experience (as a fiddler long before a box player) it is fiddlers who like to play in G minor and F major (I certainly did) and if you venture northwards into Donegal and Scotland Bb and Eb too.

BTW I'm not suggesting that the notes of the outside row should be changed around. But as a C#/D player all my (currently perceived) needs would be served by a 21-button box with a 10-button outer row and an 11-button inner row. I surmise that your average Irish B/C player could get by perfectly well with a 19-button box with a reversed layout, with a 3rd button tonic.

Seems to me that that F# on the press is the elephant in the room for B/C players. A similar limitation on C#/D, though not quite so awkard, is the inability to play D and G together.
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Theo

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Re: Did Ya Ever Have One Of Those DUH Moments?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2008, 04:14:51 PM »


Seems to me that that F# on the press is the elephant in the room for B/C players. A similar limitation on C#/D, though not quite so awkard, is the inability to play D and G together.


Both combinations are available on a D/G, its horses for courses.  All the push pull systems have some limitations, and we all have to just choose which limitations we prefer to put up with.
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RoyFromGeorgia

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Re: Did Ya Ever Have One Of Those DUH Moments?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2008, 04:04:19 AM »

He's a lovely player, I like the cd of him and Angelina C a lot.
(Not expensive direct from them at www.reeltrad.com )
Some very nice clips of the two of them at comhaltas.ie too.

Does anyone else know the detail of his bass layout?
(I guess you mean you wish you'd taken the details rather than that you already had that layout Roy,
"gotten" is not used much around here!  ;D )

Yes, I wish that I had gotten the details of his layout, and I am going to have my basses changed to that layour.  And Yes, I wish that I had known about this when I bought my box.  However, Michael from Irish Dancemaster is going to change it under his re-tuning warranty.  He is terriffic!

Roy
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RoyFromGeorgia

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Re: Did Ya Ever Have One Of Those DUH Moments?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2008, 04:12:49 AM »

I could be wrong, but I think Roy means he wished his box had come with that bass layout. (The Brits may have forgotten that "gotten" is a past participle of get, but the Americans haven't.) 

Roy, I think most inside-out halfstep box players will have one of your moments of revelation after playing for a while when they inevitably realize that they have several useless notes on the outer row and a few useful ones missing. On the other hand accordion makers supplying the Irish market (50 years after the inside-out style took over), don't seem to have cottoned on to this. They're the ones who ought to be going "Duh!"

Ah, yes two cultures seperated by a common language.  How would y'all say that in BritLand?

The problem with buying an instrument is that you should already know how to play it so that you can make an intelligent decision on what to buy.



Roy
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kmag

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Re: Did Ya Ever Have One Of Those DUH Moments?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2008, 07:15:09 PM »

Does anyone on this forum have any information on Martin's bass layout?
 I must admit using the chords as a piper would is something I have seen and sounds great when done well.
Thanks for bringing this up Roy.
Kurt
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RoyFromGeorgia

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Re: Did Ya Ever Have One Of Those DUH Moments?
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2008, 01:43:22 AM »

Does anyone on this forum have any information on Martin's bass layout?
 I must admit using the chords as a piper would is something I have seen and sounds great when done well.
Thanks for bringing this up Roy.
Kurt

Kurt, what I saw when I looked at his bass blocks was that the center reed block was missing.  I assume that he removed the root blocks and replaced them with the thirds blocks. 

Roy
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