Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 ... 32   Go Down

Author Topic: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group  (Read 100927 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Howard Mitchell-Borts (Mitch)

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 259
    • Howard Mitchell
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2011, 08:43:37 PM »

My mistake. Looked at the layout the wrong way round. You could move it all along to include Em but you'd lose F at the other end.

How about a layout with bass notes and counterbass and a single row of chords which you could configure without thirds to be major or minor.


Howard
Logged
Saltarelle Pastourelle III D/G, Hohner Erica D/G, Hohner Club II Victoria C/F, Dallape C/F, Hohner Corso A/D, Bertrand Gaillard G/C, Sagne 1 1/2 row in D, Roland FR18D, Wheatstone concertina C/G, Andrew Norman Concertina G/D, Lachenal Baritone concertina C/G, Wheatstone Baritone English concertina, Double Bass, Bridge Cetus Electric Upright Bass.

DaveW

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2011, 11:42:02 AM »

How about a layout with bass notes and counterbass and a single row of chords which you could configure without thirds to be major or minor. Howard

Yes, a possibility, but as far as stradella bass on fr 18 is concerned, I think I have decided it is a no go. Firstly the button configuration, size and rectangular pattern, makes it difficult to finger in the stradella way and next, the no. of buttons means that only a limited range of basses and chords can be programmed. I tried inverting your suggested layout and also in mirror image. My conclusion is that the keyboard layout is best suited to melodeon type basses and that is the way to go. This may mean playing the b/c/c# layout with piping style basses most of the time, rather than vamped, rhythmic chords as used for dancing.
ps The best stradella bet so far is based on your suggestion, upside down. To explain: bass notes from the inside top of the instrument Bb,F,C,G,D,A next row out as Maj chords, starting top F,C,G,D,A and E bass note third(outside) row, minor chords, from the top C,G,D,A,E,B. This gives a simple bass, maj and minor for seven bass notes (alright then 6 1/2) in inverted Stradella diagonal formation. Like it?  ??? Well I'm trying to play it! >:E

fr 18 basses for english melodeon. My observation here is that the provided tabs (mainly listed as keyof G) are good. dg and adg players have to alter the key in which these tabs are played - quite easy when you know how! so that gef tab becomes adg when the set key is changed from g to a.
If you want to add extra basses to the given tabs, don't forget that the tabulation you use is probably in a different key to which you will play it. Compris? I do hope so, 'cos I'm fed up with the topic for a bit and need to get playing all the glorious options and not fiddling with the programing!  ;D

best wishes to Howard and y'all too DaveW
 
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 04:29:03 PM by DaveW »
Logged
DaveW

Paolo Soprani b/c/c#, V Soprani b/c, Hohner Compadre adg, Roland FR-18, Hohner Merlin d/g

Huw

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 47
  • Dino black pearl II / Saltarelle Nuage DG / FR-18
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2011, 04:37:03 PM »

Just got one ! throw away the prejudices and enjoy, never thought playing a box could have so many possabilities, the tabs are a bit of a mystery to me at the moment although default tab seems to be 11 now so changing key to A gives an ADG layout . Does changing key always change the outer row and the inner rows adjust to a set interval ? I have never been able to read the "dots" so this aspect is a little baffling to say the least.
Logged

summerstars

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 295
    • UK Surnames Genealogy Contact Site
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2011, 04:55:01 PM »

Yes,  once you have found (or set a key layout) that suits you, the key change button sets the outer row,  the other rows remaining at the same interval  -  so if you have it set as ADG then changing to G will give you GCF  etc

Logged
Dino Binci D/G, Sandpiper 3v D/G, Sandpiper C/F, Hohner Bb/Eb, Pariselle 1 Row in D, Streb

Huw

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 47
  • Dino black pearl II / Saltarelle Nuage DG / FR-18
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2011, 05:14:08 PM »

Thanks for that,  I guess it all becomes clear eventually !
Logged

DaveW

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2011, 08:02:48 PM »

Huw

Welcome to the FR18 appreciation society - perhaps someone should suggest a name

Logged
DaveW

Paolo Soprani b/c/c#, V Soprani b/c, Hohner Compadre adg, Roland FR-18, Hohner Merlin d/g

Pete Dunk

  • Typo Expert
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2680
  • Primo D/G, Hohner B/E,B/C.Liliputs D/G, C/F, Bb/Eb
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2011, 10:45:10 PM »

perhaps someone should suggest a name

The enlightened?

A bit savage that, perhaps the open minded is better. Some great players evidently don't need to travel these roads although Squeezy is at least intrigued and willing to experiment and give a fair assessment of some midi instruments. My gut feeling is that the Streb was a great implementation of the midi melodeon and the Roland is an acceptable workhorse of 'all things to all people'. None is perfect but the Streb is the greater of what was on offer. Now defunct and will be sadly missed by those who didn't have chance to try one out.  :'(
Logged
Squeezing in the Isle of Oxney, Kent, UK

xgx

  • Bagpipes & Musette Boxes... and Banjos, luv 'em!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 896
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2011, 11:22:38 PM »

name.... the ...

 digi-re-doodahs

(past me bedtime ;D and I didn't have me afternoon sleep ::))
Logged
Graham

 N Cambs/S Lincs - UK   :|glug + :|glug:|||: = :|bl

DaveW

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2011, 11:24:25 PM »

perhaps someone should suggest a name

The enlightened?
A bit savage that, perhaps the open minded is better. Some great players evidently don't need to travel these roads although Squeezy is at least intrigued and willing to experiment and give a fair assessment of some midi instruments. My gut feeling is that the Streb was a great implementation of the midi melodeon and the Roland is an acceptable workhorse of 'all things to all people'. None is perfect but the Streb is the greater of what was on offer. Now defunct and will be sadly missed by those who didn't have chance to try one out.  :'(

Pete

Your summary sounds good, I will never be a great player, but have fun with some of the novel voices present. The stepped keyboard on the FR18 seems good and I think the action is light compared with other instruments I have played. Not too keen on your suggested name, could develop into a fanatic movement -but I suppose on those on melnet already come in that bracket
Logged
DaveW

Paolo Soprani b/c/c#, V Soprani b/c, Hohner Compadre adg, Roland FR-18, Hohner Merlin d/g

MadDogMurdock

  • Good talker
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2011, 02:45:32 AM »

I recently brought one home from the shop to better learn the ins and outs of all the various settings.  Did anyone else find that the pre-programmed tabs were different than those indicated in the manual?  This is the second one I've taken fresh from the box and found to be loaded with very odd layouts.  A simple reset put them straight, but I'm curious if this is common elsewhere. 
Logged

DaveW

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2011, 09:27:14 AM »

I recently brought one home from the shop to better learn the ins and outs of all the various settings.  Did anyone else find that the pre-programmed tabs were different than those indicated in the manual?  This is the second one I've taken fresh from the box and found to be loaded with very odd layouts.  A simple reset put them straight, but I'm curious if this is common elsewhere. 

The update as shown in the addendum to the on-line manual was already loaded in my box - if you will forgive the modern speak. ie it was ready to go with tablature 11 installed. My fr18 came via Deutsche Roland
Logged
DaveW

Paolo Soprani b/c/c#, V Soprani b/c, Hohner Compadre adg, Roland FR-18, Hohner Merlin d/g

MadDogMurdock

  • Good talker
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2011, 02:41:12 PM »

The discrepancies seem to be in all tabs, not just 11 and 12.  Looking at the manual and comparing it to the layout loaded on the instrument we found numerous discrepancies.  Perhaps just something found in Roland America.  As I said, reverting back to the factory reset put everything in order.   I was just curious if others had this problem, as I suspect it would be a bit of a headache for someone as they try to learn the set-up (it had me flummoxed). 
Logged

Howard Mitchell-Borts (Mitch)

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 259
    • Howard Mitchell
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2011, 02:43:11 PM »

Yes, mine was all over the place when I received it but a reset put it back to factory settings.
I got it directly from Roland UK.

Howard
Logged
Saltarelle Pastourelle III D/G, Hohner Erica D/G, Hohner Club II Victoria C/F, Dallape C/F, Hohner Corso A/D, Bertrand Gaillard G/C, Sagne 1 1/2 row in D, Roland FR18D, Wheatstone concertina C/G, Andrew Norman Concertina G/D, Lachenal Baritone concertina C/G, Wheatstone Baritone English concertina, Double Bass, Bridge Cetus Electric Upright Bass.

DaveW

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2011, 11:55:09 AM »

How about a layout with bass notes and counterbass and a single row of chords which you could configure without thirds to be major or minor.
Howard
Your suggested bass layout - I've programmed this in and am giving it a whirl. Definitely worth a try for those into bcc# layout. Thank you.
The melodeon bass alternative is OK but you have to match the chords with the push or pull right hand, this can be a strain on the brain.

Any chance of some more FR18 demos on youtube?
Logged
DaveW

Paolo Soprani b/c/c#, V Soprani b/c, Hohner Compadre adg, Roland FR-18, Hohner Merlin d/g

michik

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 412
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2011, 03:51:36 PM »

The discrepancies seem to be in all tabs, not just 11 and 12.  Looking at the manual and comparing it to the layout loaded on the instrument we found numerous discrepancies.  Perhaps just something found in Roland America.  As I said, reverting back to the factory reset put everything in order.   I was just curious if others had this problem, as I suspect it would be a bit of a headache for someone as they try to learn the set-up (it had me flummoxed).  

There is a firmware update (1.04) fixing several issues, also the tabs issue.
http://www.rolandmusik.de/ftp/pub/downloads/tecfiles/A_bis_F/FR18D_v104_Manual-Addendum.pdf
http://www.roland.co.uk/Support/Downloads_Updates/eula.aspx?Asset=zip/fr18d_upd_104.zip
Logged
Michael Knapp ~ Vienna ~ Austria
Playing on "Parigi Giovani" G/C (made by Bompezzo) - My recordings: http://www.onmvoice.com/mknapp

DaveW

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2011, 06:21:08 PM »

I had a friend round to sample the box... it worked well for me 'cos I could look at the destructions and see what was happening on the box... learned a few more bits... long road ahead :Ph

I would welcome explanation of the 'Bellows Curve' feature 'fixed' and 'light' etc How many of these are there just four or twelve? I think you and Halleluja Al had a look at this. I have played around and got a change in the way it plays, but I don't really understand the instructions. The other thing I would like to know is, do these parameters stay changed once they have been altered or do we need to save something they call a 'user set'

Comments rather than full answers are what I was hoping for, I doubt if the Roland geeks themselves know the whole story
Logged
DaveW

Paolo Soprani b/c/c#, V Soprani b/c, Hohner Compadre adg, Roland FR-18, Hohner Merlin d/g

xgx

  • Bagpipes & Musette Boxes... and Banjos, luv 'em!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 896
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2011, 06:26:01 PM »

Sorry Dave, on that occasion Al had the destructions and I was button pushing... and I've been to sleep since then :D

Thanks for asking very specific questions ...I'll be watching for answers too ;)
Logged
Graham

 N Cambs/S Lincs - UK   :|glug + :|glug:|||: = :|bl

Howard Mitchell-Borts (Mitch)

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 259
    • Howard Mitchell
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2011, 08:45:54 PM »

I would welcome explanation of the 'Bellows Curve' feature 'fixed' and 'light' etc How many of these are there just four or twelve? I think you and Halleluja Al had a look at this. I have played around and got a change in the way it plays, but I don't really understand the instructions. The other thing I would like to know is, do these parameters stay changed once they have been altered or do we need to save something they call a 'user set'

Comments rather than full answers are what I was hoping for, I doubt if the Roland geeks themselves know the whole story

There are 8 bellows curve settings.
The first three are "on-off" bellows settings. The note starts when you push or pull with a set force (low, medium or high) and the bellows pressure does not affect the volume of the note. These, IMHO, are not useful settings.

The other 5 do react to bellows pressure and the relationship between pressure and volume varies with the setting.  You might think that the extra-light setting would be good but I find that too light a setting leads to false-sounding volume changes particularly for me when I'm used to using the bellows at the start of a note to give expression. I'm using a heavier setting (4). It doesn't mean that the note starts at a high pressure just that the volume increases more gradually with pressure. I compensate for this by using a high output volume.

I think that the realtionship between pressure and volume is a straight line in all cases and I think that Roland have some work to do here to provide true "curves" that are useful for diatonic players and should even look at how the rate of change of pressure relates to volume.

The effect of the above is altered to some extent by the physical bellows resistance regulator which I originally set at minimum but have now set at about half open.

You don't need to save the bellows curve setting in a user set. It remains the same once you've set it.
The only things that need to be saved are your default tablature and key. See "saving your preferred tablature" on P33 of the manual and "Saving the key setting" on P32.

Howard
Logged
Saltarelle Pastourelle III D/G, Hohner Erica D/G, Hohner Club II Victoria C/F, Dallape C/F, Hohner Corso A/D, Bertrand Gaillard G/C, Sagne 1 1/2 row in D, Roland FR18D, Wheatstone concertina C/G, Andrew Norman Concertina G/D, Lachenal Baritone concertina C/G, Wheatstone Baritone English concertina, Double Bass, Bridge Cetus Electric Upright Bass.

DaveW

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2011, 10:25:06 PM »

Many thanks Howard, that sets me further along the road. Presumably the eight settings are two for each register, red and green, with you using register four. I will have another go.

Your comment about the bellows resistance regulator is interesting too. I set that at minimum, because I seemed to run out of air (seemed like a leaky bellows). Another go with this increased - tomorrow. Ooh these things do pass the time! But it's all fun.

 ::) 'You are awful, but I like you!'  ::)

DaveW
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 10:28:43 PM by DaveW »
Logged
DaveW

Paolo Soprani b/c/c#, V Soprani b/c, Hohner Compadre adg, Roland FR-18, Hohner Merlin d/g

Howard Mitchell-Borts (Mitch)

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 259
    • Howard Mitchell
Re: Roland fr18 diatonic accordion - user group
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2011, 01:12:32 PM »

...

Any chance of some more FR18 demos on youtube?

Here's sound only of a tune I've been practicing.  Two different voices and keys.

http://soundcloud.com/howard-mitchell/berwick-rangers

Howard
Logged
Saltarelle Pastourelle III D/G, Hohner Erica D/G, Hohner Club II Victoria C/F, Dallape C/F, Hohner Corso A/D, Bertrand Gaillard G/C, Sagne 1 1/2 row in D, Roland FR18D, Wheatstone concertina C/G, Andrew Norman Concertina G/D, Lachenal Baritone concertina C/G, Wheatstone Baritone English concertina, Double Bass, Bridge Cetus Electric Upright Bass.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 ... 32   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.