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[Myrrh Music]

Hi,

I've now been teaching myself the melodeon, for 6 months, with the aid of a couple of tuition books and the internet.  I'm still enjoying it and practise every day, but I'm getting SO frustrated with my fingers.   I can play La Marianne with no problem in a waltz rhythm,            1,   2,3,  1,  2,3    - But I CAN't stop playing Michael Turner's POLKA  1,     2,3 -,  1,    2,3.  Music theory is a mystery to me I'm afraid, this is the best way I can express it.

Does anyone else have a situation where they seriously cannot seem to change what their fingers want to do?

Mary

[Mcgrooger]

Mary, it sounds as if your polka's a waltz, rather than your waltz being a polka!
On a more serious note, I've always found when I'm learning anything, not just music, I reach a plateau where I feel I'm not progressing any more. After a while you leave the plateau and carry on up for while till you reach a new plateau. It's only with hindsight that you realise how far you've actually come. I think it's human nature as well to notice the frustration in learning rather than the achievements. You've achieved a goal in playing your waltz.
On the practical side there are a few things you could try. If I were you, I'd abaondon La Marianne for a while and concentrate on your polkas. There are various ways you can get to grips with it. If you can use ABC you can get the software to play the tune slowly and put it on repeat and keep playing along with it and repeating it until the rhythm's become second nature. It usually helps to play along with someone even if the someone is a bit of software or a youtube video. There are other discussions around how to slow things on the web down. Good luck and keep at it - I'm sure we'll be hearing/watching you play a polka with style round here in no time flat!

[Myrrh Music]

  Yes that didn't come out quite right did it?! I do know the difference, honest!  That's what comes of editing a post sometimes in one place and it affects another - should have previewed it.  Sorry.  I've been trying to avoid ABCs at it looks so complicated, I am trying to learn notation though - vaguely, enough to know which note is which on both rows.  - My sights are not high!!

Thanks

Mary

[Mcgrooger]

The thing about abc is that you don't need to know how to read music - if you can get as far as pasting the tune in abc format into the software, it'll play the tune for you. If you can read music it'll show you the dots as well but it doesn't matter if you can't. I wasn't too keen when I first encountered it but am a big fan now - it's an excellent learning aid. I'm not sure I've come across MT's polka although I'm pretty sure I've played his jig and waltz before. You're sure you're not trying to play 'MT's Waltz'?! There's abc for most popular tunes available via a quick google search.

[Myrrh Music]

 (:)Absolutely! That's what I meant - it's supposed to be a Waltz!

[george garside]

I too wonder if you've been playing michael turners waltz ( he may have done a polka but I hav,t knowingly come accross it.

The fundemental difference between a waltz and a polka is that , as you have said, the waltz rhythm is um pa pa etc etc whereas a polka is rhythm is one,two,three,hop., which is done to an 'um pa,' -'um pa,' rhythm
Simplest way to get the measure of it is to keep time with foot . UM =  foot down, PA = foot up etc etc.    Perhaps the easiest way to absorb  the rhythm is to try foot tapping in time to a few polkas on CD's  Egans & ryans polkas arre good uncluttered tunes  for this  but any polkas will do..  More emphasis should be put on the Pa than the Um as this provides the lift for dancers ( emphasising the off beat)i.e. in effect play a shorter UM and a longer PA

george

[Myrrh Music]

I didn't even know there was a polka!  Thanks George, I'll try the foot tapping idea
Mary

[Mcgrooger]

This any help?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XubFQl4dk

Or this?

X: 1
T:Michael Turner's Waltz
Z:Paul Hardy's Session Tunebook (see www.paulhardy.net). Creative Commons cc by-nc-sa licenced.
R:Waltz
C:Mozart KV 536#2 1788
O:Germany, England
M:3/4
L:1/8
%Q:1/4=100
K:G
GA \
| "G"B2BD"D7"cD | "G"d2d2gf | "C"e2e2ge | "G"d2d2"D7"GA \
| "G"B2BD"D7"cD | "G"d2d2cA | "Am7"G2G2"D7"AB | "G"G2z2 :|
|: "G"AB | "D7"c2cdBc | "D7"A2A2Bc | "G"d2decd | "Em"B2B2gf \
| "C"e2e2ge | "G"d2d2GA | "C"B2Bc"D7"AB | "G"G2z2 :|

[Rob2Hook]

Don't despair.  I found great difficulty, having learned lots of polkas, to play a waltz!  Somehow, the left hand still comes up with a syncopated rhythm at first.  I had to play very slowly to get the LH to do it through sheer concentration, then learn to relax whilst it speeded up (but not too much).  Mind you. I'm still trying to figure out how to detach left and right side of brain to ply the kind of free bass that DTN comes up with...

Rob.

[Myrrh Music]

Thanks very much McGrooger, I'll have a look at that.  you never know - penny might drop any time!!  And thank you Rob, glad I'm not the only one. 

[Marje]

Don't get too confused - there isn't a Michael Turner's Polka. In fact there isn't actually a Michael Turner's Waltz either, since the tune thus named is neither Michael Turner's (it's by Mozart and was just in MT's tunebook) nor a waltz. The dance we call a waltz was not prevalent in Turner's day (or Mozart's), and although it's in 3/4 it's not a particularly waltz-like tune. Polkas hadn't been invented then either, so it's safe to assume Turner didn't write one.

Did  I say "Don't get too confused?" I'm not sure I've made things any simpler ...

To be a bit more contructive, it sounds from your description as if you're holding on to the last note in each bar too long, and can't stop doing this even though you recognise the problem. I think your best plan is to find someone who knows the tune and try to play alongside them (or a sound-file on the computer if you can find one). You'll soon get the rhythm sorted out then.

[Graham Spencer]

As Michael Turner lived from 1796 to 1885 I think it is fairly safe to say that his lifetime encompassed both the waltz (popularised in Central Europe roughly in the 1780s) and the polka (in the same neck of the woods in the 1830s).  I agree, however, that neither was likely to be high on the list of tunes he would have played regularly, and that "MTW" is indeed by Mozart.  Mozart would not have called it a waltz, but it is a pretty tune and can be played - and usually is in our circles - in a very waltzy style. 

[Myrrh Music]

Oh well, one thing's for sure. if I ever DO play alongside other melodeonists, they are going to get one or two surprises!!!  I'm enjoying it, warts and all, though, and while that's still the case - I'm a success!!!!

[forrest]

As Michael Turner lived from 1796 to 1885 I think it is fairly safe to say that his lifetime encompassed both the waltz (popularised in Central Europe roughly in the 1780s) and the polka (in the same neck of the woods in the 1830s).  I agree, however, that neither was likely to be high on the list of tunes he would have played regularly, and that "MTW" is indeed by Mozart.  Mozart would not have called it a waltz, but it is a pretty tune and can be played - and usually is in our circles - in a very waltzy style. 

Perhaps the music in question is in the form of the minuet, which was popular during that age...
 (pattern lifted from Wikipedia):

 

[Graham Spencer]

I think Mozart probably did write it as a minuet, but to paraphrase Frank Carson, "It's the way you play 'em", and it does make a very nice waltz.

[Marje]

I think it might make a better mazurka than a waltz. It's a bit too bouncy and snappy for a waltz, and has too many notes. You can't sway to it as you would to, say "The South Wind" . But I think it would cause even more confusion if it were now to become "Michael Turner's Mazurka", so we'll let it be.

[Graham Spencer]

I see what you mean - I can sort of mentally hear it played with a slightly dotted rhythm (I'm not sure that makes musical sense, but you know what I mean!), but for me it makes a nice waltz played with a sort of "lilting swirl" (blimey, the English language is coming in for a bashing today!) and a one-to-the-bar "pulse".  It would make a lovely minuet!

[malcolmbebb]

Interesting thread. I like the tune but have often wondered why it didn't fit for a waltz.