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Author Topic: Paolo Soprani D/C#  (Read 49608 times)

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hibbs3

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Paolo Soprani D/C#
« on: August 14, 2008, 03:50:25 AM »

Just did some researching and stumbled upon the paolo soprani version of a D/C# box. Seems these things were imported to boston in the 50's, to compete with the baldonis. These paolos were, like the baldonis and walters, 19 / 4 key setups. Just wondering if anyone has ever seen / played / maybe even owns one? i would love to hear more about it.
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Québécois

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2008, 02:56:05 PM »

Question: wouldn't this rather be described as C#/D (to follow the B/C convention)?
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hibbs3

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2008, 03:18:27 PM »

nope, it was actually setup as a D/C# (played outside row in) like derrane plays
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Lars

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2008, 05:17:08 PM »

These were imported by the O'Byrne-DeWitt company - generally I've only seen two versions. The 50's model with the all silvery grill (known as "pepperpot" for some reason) and the later 60's with celluid grill. Both 4 voice LMMM treble with 2 couplers to take out the low reed.

I've never tried one, but I've heard that they were very very nice. More compact than the standard paolo, but still with the 4 voice treble and same button size/spacing.

They just about NEVER appear for sale, and from the rumours of the accordion world, they are very very pricey when they do. Never seen one for sale myself...

//Lars
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triskel

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2008, 04:57:01 AM »

These were imported by the O'Byrne-DeWitt company - generally I've only seen two versions. The 50's model with the all silvery grill (known as "pepperpot" for some reason) and the later 60's with celluid grill. Both 4 voice LMMM treble with 2 couplers to take out the low reed.

Lars,

You haven't come across the grey 1940s model then? This is mine:


They were probably designed by Jerry O'Brien (Joe Derrane's teacher at O'Byrne de Witt's, for anybody reading this who doesn't know), and are tuned with two middle reeds on one coupler, adding bassoon and piccolo on the master - so LMMH like a 4-stop melodeon. This is the model (with his name on it) that Jerry is holding in the photo (with the young Joe Derrane) that was used for the CD cover, and you can tell from listening to his recordings that it is what he played on them himself.


It was advertised as the "Model 700, O'Byrne de Witt Professional De Luxe Model, 8 sets of reeds. New Low Price $199.50", whilst the "Model 800, Brand New Professional Model O'Byrne de Witt-Baldoni Chromatic Accordion" which I also have (below) was $249.00. That one came to me in its original case, with the owner's initials G.O'B on it (unfortunately not J.O'B!  ;)) and with a pile of Jerry O'Brien's music (the owner was no doubt a pupil), it's tuned LLMM (the same as most contemporary Baldoni, Bartolis) and is similar to the one Joe Derrane is holding in the same photo.


There was also a 2-voice Paolo Soprani "Model 600, O'Byrne de Witt Professional Model, 4 sets of reeds. New Low Price $129.50".

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I've never tried one, but I've heard that they were very very nice. More compact than the standard paolo, but still with the 4 voice treble and same button size/spacing.

I like mine a lot, and it's as you describe.

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They just about NEVER appear for sale, and from the rumours of the accordion world, they are very very pricey when they do. Never seen one for sale myself...

I won't comment on prices, except to say they don't sell for as much as full-size Paolos, though they are rare and as far as we know there are only two of the 2-coupler grey ones in Ireland, mine (#156) and John Brosnan's, and the numbers of them are (if I remember rightly) only 6 apart. However there are a few more of the 2-voice ones around, including a black one that Jackie Daly used to play (which he'd added a third voice and more basses to).

edited photos

sCANdanADIAN

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2008, 04:42:35 PM »

I believe that Lars and Hibbs are going to have a serious case of accordion envy ;D.

Chris
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triskel

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2008, 12:15:42 AM »

I believe that Lars and Hibbs are going to have a serious case of accordion envy ;D.
Chris,

Maybe I should post a picture of my early 1930s, 6-voice, single-row Baldoni, Bartoli as well?  ;)

Only, seeing that most people here have probably never seen, let alone experienced one of these incredible boxes in the flesh, I'll link instead to a clip of my friend Anders Trabjerg playing his mid-1930s, 8-voice, 1.3-row D/C# Baldoni, Bartoli (below) for set dancers: Clare Lancers Set. Figure 3
 
   

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Lars

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2008, 04:33:38 AM »

Stephen, I know just what you mean - I just came back from Ireland this Thursday after a week staying with Anders and all his boxes;)

I'd love to see one of those D/C#-paolos in the flesh - I play a 6v single row baldoni myself and a 3v 50's paolo, so that would be great to try out the reverse rows for real. I have a D/C# baldoni for sale, never really got the hang of the reverse row system, but perhaps with a paolo it's easier than on the huge buttons of the baldoni.

Thanks for the pic. of the grey - I just remember me and Hibbs3 having a discussion about Jackie Dalys excact box off-list!

Hmm... I'll just go find that Jerry & Joe CD and have a listen myself!
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triskel

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2008, 05:53:17 AM »

Hmm... I'll just go find that Jerry & Joe CD and have a listen myself!

The presentation may be naff, and the listing hard to find, but (like the Bobby Gardiner one) you can get these from Germany (off eBay): IRISH ACCORDEON - AKKORDEON DERRANE O'BRIEN 1 - CD NEU and IRISH ACCORDEON - AKKORDEON DERRANE O'BRIEN 2 - CD NEU, as well as IRISH ACCORDEON - AKKORDEON J. DERRANE - CD NEUWARE

Lars

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2008, 10:35:01 AM »

Oh, I've got it. Just have to pull it out and give it a good hard listen:)
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triskel

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2008, 12:57:06 PM »

Oh, I've got it. Just have to pull it out and give it a good hard listen:)
Oh, I get you, I must do the same.  :(

I wonder if Anders ever gives lessons...

Anyway, it was raining hard yesterday, so I didn't bother going, but the sun is out now and it's time to go to Tullamore, for the Fleadh!  :)

Lars

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2008, 10:56:49 PM »

Stephen,

That grey D/C# you have:

Does the pallets open directly for both rows, or is there a lever-action for the row of pallets closest to the keyboard as on my mid 50's?

What does the basses play? I assume D/G - D/A, but other configurations have been seen.

Do you know what the reeds look like? I know some of the earliest greys had slightly smaller scale reeds (which supposedly produces a fuller, somewhat louder sound).

Sometime you just HAVE to show me around your collection... suddenly my 3 paolos and 2 baldonis seems like just a drop in the sea...
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triskel

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2008, 12:59:40 AM »

That grey D/C# you have

One thing I didn't mention yet is that both mine and John Brosnan's have been converted to C#/D, and we both (quite independently) put the lowest and highest notes of the D row onto the C# one, so there's effectively an 11-button D row. Apart from a handful of "returned yanks" (Irish people who've come home from living in America) and Anders, there's just about nobody who (regularly) plays D/C# in Ireland.

It has the lever-action for the row of pallets closest to the keyboard as on your mid 50's one?

The basses do play D/G - D/A.

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Do you know what the reeds look like? I know some of the earliest greys had slightly smaller scale reeds (which supposedly produces a fuller, somewhat louder sound).

It's the only Paolo I've got, so I've nothing to compare it with, but I suspect it was made around 1947.

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Sometime you just HAVE to show me around your collection... suddenly my 3 paolos and 2 baldonis seems like just a drop in the sea...

That's more than I have in the way of "playing" accordions, but I have a pretty extensive one of early accordions and concertinas, including four Demian accordions and Wheatstone's first concertina. You'll be welcome, in fact Anders is threatening to come down for a few days sometime...

hibbs3

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2008, 06:35:33 AM »

What can you tell me about this particular "Baldoni" in D/C#, if anything? I've only got a few pictures...
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Lars

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2008, 05:04:40 PM »

That grey D/C# you have

One thing I didn't mention yet is that both mine and John Brosnan's have been converted to C#/D, and we both (quite independently) put the lowest and highest notes of the D row onto the C# one, so there's effectively an 11-button D row. Apart from a handful of "returned yanks" (Irish people who've come home from living in America) and Anders, there's just about nobody who (regularly) plays D/C# in Ireland.
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triskel

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2008, 11:32:49 PM »

What can you tell me about this particular "Baldoni" in D/C#, if anything? I've only got a few pictures...
Ryan,

I'd need to see it in the flesh really, but I wonder if it isn't a later version of my red O'Byrne-de Witt Baldoni Bros  one (the couplers suggest a 1950s date), with most of the lettering missing?

hibbs3

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2008, 11:48:09 PM »

seems to fit..I often wondered about the lettering not being centered...but as I dont have the box at the moment, I can't tell you that there's any remenants of letters from anywhere else on the box. What I can tell you is it has a built-in pick up (at least 50 years old, nothing like todays pick-ups) and is it is louder than my 6 voice! The musette setting (She's a MMML) sounds like an identical twin to that "grey" paolo sound (mind now it still isn't a grey). Can you tell anything from these pics of the pick-up?
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triskel

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2008, 11:56:11 PM »

Apart from a handful of "returned yanks" (Irish people who've come home from living in America) and Anders, there's just about nobody who (regularly) plays D/C# in Ireland.

Well, Charlie Harris plays some D/C#, from what I've been told. He used to play a white/green 19/2 4v in his time with Shaskeen - as seen on one of their album covers. Now he plays 1� row (8v) but still D/C# (that is, when he's not pulling his grey paolo).

Danny Mahoney just got himself an old Baldoni D/C#, and even though he's famous for his B/C, there may still be a chance he'll give it a go for real.

That's why I was careful to use the word "reguarly", but none of them (except sometimes maybe Anders) would take a D/C# out to a session instead of their C#/D or B/C.

In spite of what I've seen written elsewhere, D/C# has never been a system used in Ireland, it's very much an Irish-American thing.

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Well, I'm coming over for a couple of months after christmas, so I just might drop by for coffee and box-o-holic talk.;)

 ;D Boxes are more dangerous than alcohol, and Baldonis are "the hard stuff"!  ;)

hibbs3

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2008, 04:06:37 AM »

I'm on the wrong side of the atlantic! It seems that all the boxes that were destined for this side are returning to the other side! I need to take a vacation..
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Lars

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Re: Paolo Soprani D/C#
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2008, 07:56:11 PM »

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