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[hibbs3]

I ended up letting the DC# Paolo go, as the 8v Baldoni struck more heart strings on me than that Paolo did

[hibbs3]

heres a link to the two pics, an awesome 20 key DC# Walters, and a beautiful Paolo Soprani DC#

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/hibbs3/images

[Lars]

I've uploaded most of my picture collection of "peculiar old boxes" to flickr.com username: lars_jakabov or just search "baldoni-bartoli" to find them. Lots of old D/C# boxes among all the paolos.

Edit: This might work: http://www.flickr.com/photos/21478603@N06/

[hibbs3]

quite the pic collection lars   

[Lars]

Well, you've seen most of them before, Ryan:)

[boxlad]

It never fails to amaze me where these boxes turn up. This one was in a house down the road from me in Co. Waterford for the past 50 years and I never once saw it until last weekend! It is identical to Jim Coogan's black paolo. A lovely box..


 

[pgroff]

Thanks for sharing the pic Ray!

If we can trust the labeling on the couplers, this one is LMMM....

and no "O'Byrne DeWitt" or Baldoni badge on this one.

These various D/C# 4-bass Paolos really are wonderful accordions, with a featherlight left hand side, and I wish they could be re-issued (with just a couple more melody buttons squeezed in on the right side!).

PG

[hibbs3]

Awesome!

[boxlad]

I agree completely Paul. Great boxes for sure!  And by the way this box is for sale so PM me anyone that wants to make an offer. My friend has neither internet nor even decent phone connection... nor an idea of what he wants for the box but is open to offers   

[hibbs3]

I've sent you a PM

[boxlad]

Following numerous enquiries about this box I just wanted to let you all know the following:
1. I won't be able to get decent photos for some time as the box is a long distance from where I live. As soon as I can, I will post them up.
2. I will also post a detailed description of the instrument as soon as I get a chance to examine it fully.

Thanks

[pgroff]

Hi all,

Hope no one objects to my digging up this very old thread. 

Just to add to the information above, here's a comparison of two D/C#, 19 key, 4 bass accordions made by Paolo Soprani for export to the USA.

The one on the left was sold by O'Byrne DeWitt in Boston and is in LMMH.  The one on the right, with an "arrowhead" shaped blue badge, turned up in New York and was likely sold there.  That one is in LMMM.  The blue badge box is very similar to the one once owned by Jim Coogan (RIP).  I remember when Jim got his, he was really  happy to have found it and seemed to prefer it to many boxes he had owned and sold over the years.  Unlike Jim's box, the blue badge box shown here does not have smaller buttons for the inside, C#, row.  Also I think that, compared to his, this one has a little different shape for the "cutout" area in the accordion casework around the four bass buttons.

The two Paolos shown here are similar in having aluminum soundboards and celluloid-covered metal grilles. Each of them has four melody reedblocks crammed into a very small body, so they both have a more muted, less crashy sound from the inside row of buttons -- and each sounds more even with the grille off.  Probably each would sound more balanced between the rows if given a customized, very open, naked metal grille.

The couplers on the OBD box give a choice of MM or LMMH; on the blue badge box the options are MMM or LMMM.  The blue badge box is slightly bigger, especially around the keyboard.  The larger keyboard dimensions actually offer noticeably more comfort when playing from the outside row -- better location for anchoring the thumb, less cramped for the fingers, and also less chance of knocking the couplers unintentionally.  I think there was an evolution of the design here, probably prompted by feedback from the players.  Other differences include the bass side cutout around the bass buttons, the air button (a long bar on the OBD, a round button on the blue badge box) and the bass grille design.  The OBD box has sturdy and well-machined hardware to hold a swiveling thumb strap; no thumb strap at all on the blue badge box.  The blue badge box has the rear-of-keyboard plate perforated to let out some sound.

Obviously both boxes are vintage Paolos and they sound and play that way.  But the blue-badge one has the more familiar Paolo voicings, including the MMM musette sound, really ringing in the upper notes, that reminds me of Cooley.  I don't know what accordion Tommy Liddy used with the Belhavel Trio, but this Paolo has a deep, gutsy LMMM sound on the outside row that's perfect for his tunes.  The OBD is very Baldoni-like in LMMH but sweet in MM like some of the prewar German melodeons when played MM.

We saw in this thread that, despite their rarity, Paolo Soprani made a wide variety of these D/C# boxes for American players over the years, in parallel with the styles in which they made the boxes for export to Ireland, Scotland, and England. The subtle differences between these two black boxes are just part of the story.

PG

[pgroff]

Here's a blue-badge 2 voice MM student model Paolo DC# box, probably from the 1960s. Shown with the blue-badge LMMM 2-coupler 4 voice model that I already posted above.  Although the two boxes seem quite similar apart from the number of reeds and the couplers, there are some notable differences:

Slight differences in the treble grille perforation pattern.
White vs black in the body inset around the four bass buttons.
Adjustable bass side strap in the 2 voice model (not adjustable in the fancier 4 voice model!). This may indicate a later time period or not, but actually it could be that young students might need that adjustable strap more than adults - both because they're growing and because the box might sometimes be passed back and forth between student and adult teacher.
Wooden soundboard in the 2 voice model, aluminum soundboard in the 4 voice model.

Note that the light colored pattern in the bellows tape on both boxes is yellowed. Originally this would have been white to match the white buttons. Evidence for that: here's an anonymous photo that was for sale on ebay as a 2X2 slide some years ago - showing a box similar to these two! Note the color of the bellows pattern when it was new.

PG

[boxcall]

Here's a blue-badge 2 voice MM student model Paolo DC# box, probably from the 1960s. Shown with the blue-badge LMMM 2-coupler 4 voice model that I already posted above.  Although the two boxes seem quite similar apart from the number of reeds and the couplers, there are some notable differences:

Slight differences in the treble grille perforation pattern.
White vs black in the body inset around the four bass buttons.
Adjustable bass side strap in the 2 voice model (not adjustable in the fancier 4 voice model!). This may indicate a later time period or not, but actually it could be that young students might need that adjustable strap more than adults - both because they're growing and because the box might sometimes be passed back and forth between student and adult teacher.
Wooden soundboard in the 2 voice model, aluminum soundboard in the 4 voice model.

Note that the light colored pattern in the bellows tape on both boxes is yellowed. Originally this would have been white to match the white buttons. Evidence for that: here's an anonymous photo that was for sale on ebay as a 2X2 slide some years ago - showing a box similar to these two! Note the color of the bellows pattern when it was new.

PG

Hi PG
Cool boxes! , the grille on the four voice is reminding me of Darth Vader.

[richard.fleming]

The LMMH box is very like the rare and sought-after Pepperpot model except it lacks the pepperpot grille; in fact it has a grille pattern unlike anything I've ever seen before. Could that be because it was marketed as an O Byrne DeWitt, to distinguish it from ordinary Paolos?

[tirpous]

The LMMH box is very like the rare and sought-after Pepperpot model except it lacks the pepperpot grille; in fact it has a grille pattern unlike anything I've ever seen before. Could that be because it was marketed as an O Byrne DeWitt, to distinguish it from ordinary Paolos?

As it happens there is a 1949 Gray with a similar grille (same pattern anyway) on Benny McCarthy's web site linked in this current thread: http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,25028.msg297776/topicseen.html#new  under photos  /  box pics.

[pgroff]

The LMMH box is very like the rare and sought-after Pepperpot model except it lacks the pepperpot grille; in fact it has a grille pattern unlike anything I've ever seen before. Could that be because it was marketed as an O Byrne DeWitt, to distinguish it from ordinary Paolos?

As it happens there is a 1949 Gray with a similar grille (same pattern anyway) on Benny McCarthy's web site linked in this current thread: http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,25028.msg297776/topicseen.html#new  under photos  /  box pics.

Yes, that's a known Paolo Soprani grille pattern. Some have claimed it's from the late 1940s but I would have guessed early 1950s myself. It shows up in Paolos made in the Irish keys (BC, DD#, etc) as well as in the Irish American system (shorter rows, 4 basses, DC#). I think all the Paolo button accordions that I've seen with that grille pattern were either black or grey, not sure I've ever seen a red Paolo Soprani button accordion with that pattern.   But it does show up (rarely) on Paolo Soprani piano accordions in many colors.

Here's Tom Dunne with one in black or dark grey; I think this is a 2 coupler LMMM BC with 23 melody keys and 8 basses:

https://irishamerica.com/2011/10/comhaltas-making-music-for-sixty-years/

Here's Andrew McNamara playing a Paolo with this grille pattern, on which the celluloid has been removed from the grille, exposing the underlying metal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNqhbcQPTNo

PG

[tirpous]

Hmm, I guess Mr. McNamara is no fan of celluloid and couplers on grilles - years earlier he was already playing a similarly modified box: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX9WfdP11JU&feature=youtu.be

On another subject, I tend to associate the ( )  or ((   )) grilles, like those in the 1st picture in Reply #112, with red badge.  Would the blue badges indicate an earlier date of manufacture ??

[pgroff]

Hmm, I guess Mr. McNamara is no fan of celluloid and couplers on grilles - years earlier he was already playing a similarly modified box: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX9WfdP11JU&feature=youtu.be

On another subject, I tend to associate the ( )  or ((   )) grilles, like those in the 1st picture in Reply #112, with red badge.  Would the blue badges indicate an earlier date of manufacture ??

I don't think so, for this "type" of blue badge (arrowhead shaped).

There are other types of blue badges that I associate with 1950s boxes.

PG

[odonovanchris]

Here is a Paolo I picked up a few years ago from a chap in Denmark. It appears to be of similar era to the above paolos (early 50s ish) however the grille pattern is different again and red in colour. It was originally G/C LMM which I had converted to B/C MMM. Beautiful sweet tone out of it and it is very lightweight. The only issue is the stepped keyboard which will be an upcoming project to tackle!