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Author Topic: YouTube copyright claim  (Read 7574 times)

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Steve_freereeder

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Re: YouTube copyright claim
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2011, 03:25:00 PM »

Many of us play in ceilidh bands using mostly trad tunes, but there doesn't seem to be a suitable category in the PRS tariffs for the occasions when we may (or may not) use a tune attributed to a living composer.   As most dances have to be modified on the fly, depending on the skill and attention span of the dancers  ;D, one cannot say absolutley whether such tunes will be used during an evening.
Can of worms. Best not to go anywhere near it lest we draw unwanted attention to it....
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Earbrass

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Re: YouTube copyright claim
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2011, 04:03:55 PM »

Is the license payable by the performer or the organiser of the event?


It's usually the organizer/venue who needs the licence, not the performer, as I understand it.
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Andrew Wigglesworth

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Re: YouTube copyright claim
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2011, 07:26:33 PM »

This does raise an interesting thought.  Many of us play in ceilidh bands using mostly trad tunes, but there doesn't seem to be a suitable category in the PRS tariffs for the occasions when we may (or may not) use a tune attributed to a living composer.   As most dances have to be modified on the fly, depending on the skill and attention span of the dancers  ;D, one cannot say absolutley whether such tunes will be used during an evening.

Just trying to think whose tunes are in my repertoire - JK, Ed Rennie, Simon Ritchie... some I don't even know.

Is the license payable by the performer or the organiser of the event?

Rob.

The PRS are not going to come chasing after you as performers, that's not what they do. It's venues that are licensed. In fact, if you join the PRS as a member of a ceilidh band then you can report what you play (including your arrangements of out of copyright material) and get a small payment. It is a small payment (£6) that's split across compositions/arrangements that are by PRS registered people, but it mounts up of course over a number of gigs.

PRS Gigs and clubs scheme.

oggiesnr

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Re: YouTube copyright claim
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2011, 10:17:48 PM »

The local PRS rep recently visited York.  As a result the Council are now considering a £9.00 per day charge for all buskers to cover the cost of a PRS licence for the city centre.  Not yet a done deal and depends on a number of ongoing negociations.

Steve
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Ebor_fiddler

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Re: YouTube copyright claim
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2011, 12:21:23 AM »

My opinion of our noble council and their employees has never been high and it doesn't surprise me one bit.  :|glug I would be surprised if such a vague area would prove to be legal.  :o Who's going to police it? Which buskers are involved? I've never heard lostbusker (formerly of this parish) ever play a tune in copyright.  :||: Should all be tarred with the same brush? We (the then York Folk Centre) had trouble with the PRS, but soon saw them off with a letter on the subject of our residents and their application of the English Tradition.   >:(
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Fidjit

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Re: YouTube copyright claim
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2011, 09:43:25 AM »

GOSH ! What a complicated world we live in. I'm going back to bed.

Cheers  :|glug

Chas
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Anahata

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Re: YouTube copyright claim
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2011, 10:35:26 AM »

I've never heard lostbusker (formerly of this parish) ever play a tune in copyright.

Copyright  doesn't matter.
The buskers should all join the PRS (only a tenner now) and register their own "arrangements" of everything they play (trad material is fine: the performer/arranger is still entitled to PRS royalties). They should then ask the council for a PRS return form, fill it in and hand to the council to send back to the PRS. As the council's streets are now a licensed venue the council are required to send in returns detailing the works performed, and if they don't do it, as evidenced by PRS royalty payments not arriving a few months later, vigorous complaints should be made to both bodies.
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Kautilya

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Re: YouTube copyright claim
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2011, 03:30:49 PM »

I've never heard lostbusker (formerly of this parish) ever play a tune in copyright.

Copyright  doesn't matter.
The buskers should all join the PRS (only a tenner now) and register their own "arrangements" of everything they play (trad material is fine: the performer/arranger is still entitled to PRS royalties). They should then ask the council for a PRS return form, fill it in and hand to the council to send back to the PRS. As the council's streets are now a licensed venue the council are required to send in returns detailing the works performed, and if they don't do it, as evidenced by PRS royalty payments not arriving a few months later, vigorous complaints should be made to both bodies.

Yeah and some  of us have never played a copyright in tune >:E so does that get us off the hook too!
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Andrew Wigglesworth

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Re: YouTube copyright claim
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2011, 05:28:40 PM »

In the great hoo haa over the changes in entertainment licensing laws one of the concerns was whether this would catch out buskers.

I well remember the discussions and busking (ie. spontaneous playing in a street for tips) is specifically classed as incidental music that does not need an entertainment licence.

What rules local authorities bring in for land that they own or control  is up to them (if they're legal in themselves), much the same as any other land owner.

Andrew Wigglesworth

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Re: YouTube copyright claim
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2011, 05:33:12 PM »

... and looking it up, here's the advice from the Department for Culture and Media website.

Is busking licensable?

oggiesnr

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Re: YouTube copyright claim
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2011, 06:33:56 PM »

My opinion of our noble council and their employees has never been high and it doesn't surprise me one bit. 

In all fairness the problem starts with the PRS, the council are just trying to find a way out that doesn't end up with the residents of York footing the bill.  Even not allowing for "trad arr." most of the music played by buskers in the city IS under copyright.  Traditional musicians are very much in a minority.  It would also apply, for instance, to the street entertainers who make use of taped music as part of their act.

Steve
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Howard Jones

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Re: YouTube copyright claim
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2011, 08:28:47 PM »

Andrew, you're confusing the need for a license under the Licensing Act with copyright licensing, which is entirely separate and adminstered by the PRS on behalf of its members.  If an event fall within the Licensing Act then it is licensable whether or not copyright music is being performed.  In theory, if no copyright music is performed then you don't need a PRS licence (but try persuading them!)

It is the venue's responsibility to have the appropriate licences from PRS and to make returns about the music being performed, so as a performer you don't need to worry about it.  At most you might be asked to provide information about the material so the venue can submit its returns.  Of course, if you compose your own material or make arrangments of trad tunes then, as Anahata points out, you can join PRS yourself.

It is easy to be critical of the PRS system, including the way it treats traditional music, but at least it absolves the performer of responsibility for obtaining copyright permission.  Our lives would be much more difficult if we had to get Andy Cutting's or John Kirkpatrick's permission every time we want to play their tunes.
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