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Author Topic: Melodeon History Sites ?  (Read 23372 times)

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Theo

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Re: Melodeon History Sites ?
« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2008, 04:06:57 PM »

OK, time to suggest a way forward.

1.  Firstly, now that he's worked his way through the SMW process, I'm interest to hear Bill's comment on SMW and the its suitability to this project.  Also, any concerns, confusions or overall impressions he might have had.  It's some while since I went throught that same process, so a fresh perspective could be very valuable.


Then, assuming that Bill doesn't come up with a show stopper....

2.  If the system is to be hosted on Theo's server, we need confirmation that SMW is installed, running and available.  As mentioned before, I would suggest starting with the Semantic Mediawiki, Semantic Forms, Semantic Drilldown and Parser Functions extensions installed.   Also, if Mediawiki is already installed, which version is it?  1.13?

Nothing installed yet, just d/ld Mediawiki 1.13 Will try and get them installed this week.
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3.  Obviously, for any of us to get started on the system, we need the URL of the wiki's home page.  Initially, I'd suggest making the URL known to developers/volunteers only, otherwise things could get a bit chaotic.  Also, at least one of us will need access to the WikiSysop account, so that the navigation bars can be amended. 
Agreed
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4.  Another job to be done soon will be for Theo (or whoever the system admin is) to establish a Mediawiki security policy.  Although I'd expect that everyone will be able to view the wiki, you might want to think about if/how edit access is controlled.  At the very least, I'd suggest that annonymous users are barred from editing (i.e.  if you want to edit, you need to sign up with a user account).  That way, if someone does contribute rubbish or spam, at least they can be dealt with and held responsible.
Yes, something for the project group to work out the details of
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5.  Can I suggest that an additional forum section is set up for this project?  I suspect that communicating via this one thread could get confusing.

Will do
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6.  I'm suspecting that the eventual success/failure of this project will depend on how well the instrument database is specified.  Although the structure can be altered once its up and running, this can prove troublesome if lots of records need changing.  It's much better to get it right to begin with.
Yes, for example:

1 , "number of bass reeds"  There are so many different ways to count this.  Its easy for a stradella bass, just count the number of reed banks, but in diatonics there are usually different numbers for bass and chord, and sometimes reeds are shared between bass and chord. So if this is included we would need no of bass reeds, no of chord reeds, number of shared reeds, and their are exceptions to this too where some reeds are shared between different chords.
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The field lists suggested already look to be a good start, but there's still some factors to be considered further.  Aside from giving a field a datatype, it's also possible to specify a list of values that might be contained in it.  So, for example, when filling in the 'Keys Available' field, it would be possible to force the user to choose from a drop-down list of options (DG, CF, BC...), rather than expect them to enter text themselves.  This can be very useful, as it ensures that people will use a common terminology and thus makes querying much more effective.  The downside is that the list forces the person to choose one of the options - they can't enter something that isn't there without first editing the list.  Editing the list is done elsewhere in the wiki - it's not hard to do, but isn't at all obvious to a casual user, which may or may not be a good thing.
Something else for the project group to hammer out

Another suggestion: its common for one model to be produced in several tunings, and in several different finishes and colours so for one model there needs to be the ability to assign more than one attribute from a list.
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So, against the lists already suggested, which fields would require a specific list of values and what would those values be (initially, at least)?

Also, does anyone have any issues with the exact wording of the fields that have already been suggested.  Are any ambiguous, confusing, or only specific to a sub-set of instruments?  I know from experience that its very easy to get the naming side very wrong, so it's definately worth some proper thought.  So, do the name and statistics from your own instrument(s) fit the suggestions made so far?

Finally, what sort of instruments will be included in the wiki and which won't?  Given the name of this forum, I'm guessing that concertinas and piano accordions won't be included, but what about the some of the more regional melodeon variations?   Where would you state that an instrument is an organetti or trikitixa?  Or, doesn't that matter?
Including regional names sound useful
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Theo

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Re: Melodeon History Sites ?
« Reply #61 on: September 06, 2008, 04:16:26 PM »

5.  Can I suggest that an additional forum section is set up for this project?  I suspect that communicating via this one thread could get confusing.

Done.

It's in the Forum and Website Admin area. 

At present its accessible to all members, but not guests.  It could be made a closed group if necessary.

Should this thread be moved there?
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Re: Melodeon History Sites ?
« Reply #62 on: September 06, 2008, 09:24:05 PM »

5.  Can I suggest that an additional forum section is set up for this project?  I suspect that communicating via this one thread could get confusing.

Done.

It's in the Forum and Website Admin area. 

At present its accessible to all members, but not guests.  It could be made a closed group if necessary.

Should this thread be moved there?

Thanks, Theo.  Not sure whether this thread should be moved right now.  Might be worth leaving it here for the time being (maybe locked), until everyone's worked out what's going on.

Also, your comment about some fields needing several entries was correct - I really should have mentioned that before.  The SMW has a couple of ways of handling such data, so it shouldn't be a problem.


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Martin J

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Re: Melodeon History Sites ?
« Reply #63 on: September 07, 2008, 08:11:03 PM »

Yep, sounds good.  ...  From what I've seen elsewhere on this site, the actual naming of layouts seems somewhat awkward.  As names are a fundamental part of a wiki, it would probably be a good idea to formulate a standard approach to this right from the start (i.e. is it good or bad that a keyboard layout is given a manufacturers/players name?).  I really have no idea what form this might take - that's one for the actual melodeon experts among you.

A good place to start would be the manufacturers "Standard" which would have several key choices plus low notes or accidentals.  I note where keyboard maps are named on this site it has been done under the name of people who are well known in folk circles.  The nature of the beast is of course that most manufacturers offer bespoke layouts.  The current nomenclature of 1, 1.5 row etc could be modified to stating the number of buttons per row which would give a unique number eg.  9+3 (Organetto)  11+10 (Hohner & most other two rows)  9+10+9 (Rucksack steirische) etc.  Possibly, at the risk of getting too complex, add the bass buttons.  eg. 11+10+5/12 (Castagnari Dony & others)  Individual layout variations could be shown further down a page covering that particular number of buttons.  If we create pages of layouts can these be accessed by hyperlinks from the Make & Model page ?

Theo's 'inside' knowledge of construction has highlighted how to describe bass reeds as opposed to buttons.  Probably this detail can be in the body text but for identification purposes most people will want to know the maximum number of reeds that will sound when a button is pushed.
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Re: Melodeon History Sites ?
« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2008, 11:15:16 AM »

I did use SMW, properties, templates, forms, etc to produce all this, the factbox is off the bottom of the page. Fuller reply to follow, I'm in Germany on my daughter's German keyboard with all the letters in the wrong places. There is a Manufacturer template, etc as well, but not much on it.

Ah, that's excellent, then.  As I mentioned in the previous post, it was impossible to tell, from the image alone, one way or another.  I look forward to hearing more.

I have put my response to previous posts here, as Theo has created it. I can't volunteer to be a melodeon history expert, as I don't have a collection of old catalogues to peruse, and I can't be an expert on SMW, because I just followed my nose, but I can volunteer to try things out, as I have an almost virgin throw-away installation.
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