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[Brian G]

Friends

Several questions as I prep for a BCC# purchase

1.Are the 12 bass buttons, unisonic on this box?  If so what is the layout?

2.There are only 31 treble buttons.  Which three buttons, (on this site's 34 button Kirkpatrick BCC# layout), are missing? 

thank you all for any assistance

Brian

[george garside]

Friends

Several questions as I prep for a BCC# purchase

1.Are the 12 bass buttons, unisonic on this box?  If so what is the layout?

2.There are only 31 treble buttons.  Which three buttons, (on this site's 34 button Kirkpatrick BCC# layout), are missing? 

thank you all for any assistance

Brian

the bass are definately off the push/pull veriety which I would not consider under any circumstaances on a BCC# box although others may be happy with them.  The problem is exactly the same as onan 8 or 12 bass BC etc box & is why the majority of plaayers ignore them.  There are however possibilities to have the bass altered which could maake sense given the low price of the compadre.  2 possibilities would be 12 stradella ( but without diagonal button offset   FCGDAE as on trichord or go for 12 ( thirdless) major chords to give you something to prod out a bbit of rhythm & harmony in all keys .

Am guessing about missing buttons but the 31 button trichord  is 3rd button doh , i.e. if it follows this the 3 buttons nearest chin on 34 button layout would be missing.

george

[Brian G]

George

Thanks for that reply.  I thought the bass buttons were the way you described.   I have a Paolo Elite I (BC) which is in very good condition.  I do want to get that stradella setup.  Not far from my place there are 5 BCC# boxes, four are used (1 with 45 bass, 2 with 60 bass and 1 with 80 bass), selling for around $2500.00 (about 1400 GBP).  Then there is a brand new Fantini Sharino for $8,500.  What is in that box to make is so expensive?  Perhaps I can trade in the Elite I and make a deal for one of the used boxes.

thanks again

Brian

[EeeJay]

Just to confirm (having tried one) it is a 3rd button start. And each of the treble rows has accidentals fitted at the bottom - like they've swiped the preloaded reedblocks out of a parts bin for fifth apart boxes and just cobbled them together. Barmy!

Dunno what the bass was - like George, I'm fairly sure it was bisonoric, but whatever it was, 12 bass is fairly duff... partly why I didn't bother trying it out... 

I'm more intrigued by the new varieties of Hohner Corona Xtreme, which are 34 button treble... with a Stradella bass rig, this would be such a great little B/C/C# box...

Ed J

[george garside]

George

Thanks for that reply.  I thought the bass buttons were the way you described.   I have a Paolo Elite I (BC) which is in very good condition.  I do want to get that stradella setup.  Not far from my place there are 5 BCC# boxes, four are used (1 with 45 bass, 2 with 60 bass and 1 with 80 bass), selling for around $2500.00 (about 1400 GBP).  Then there is a brand new Fantini Sharino for $8,500.  What is in that box to make is so expensive?  Perhaps I can trade in the Elite I and make a deal for one of the used boxes.

thanks again

Brian

you can see a couple of clips of the fantini being played on U tube. put in either Billy McGuire or Graham Irvine - its definately a posh box!

george

[Bill Young]

Then there is a brand new Fantini Sharino for $8,500.  What is in that box to make is so expensive? 

The Fantini Sharino is a top-class Italian hand made accordion, the equivalent in quality of piano accordions in the same price bracket. I know two people who have them and have been able to play both. It was designed as a modern version of the Hohner Shand Morino (hence "Sharino"). Naturally, it is big and heavy.

Here are two clips of the Fantini Sharino being played. It is the same instrument in both clips; this particular one belongs to Graham Irvine.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ODBcBAmQHNI
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7vFhuA2o088&feature=user

[Bill Young]

Not far from my place there are 5 BCC# boxes, four are used (1 with 45 bass, 2 with 60 bass and 1 with 80 bass), selling for around $2500.00 (about 1400 GBP). 

Brian, what are the makes/models of the 4 used BCC# boxes?

[Brian G]

Bill

As far as I can tell they are Excelsior make and I think the model is Hibernian.

Brian

[Brian G]

Bill

I should have given you the link.  Check it out.

http://www.castiglioneaccordions.com/used.html?style=C.+BUTTON+BOXES.

Item #s 3101, 3107, 3140, 3141 are the BCC# offerings.  If you can shed any light on the quality of these boxes I would apprieciate it very much. 

Brian

[Bill Young]

Bill

I should have given you the link.  Check it out.

http://www.castiglioneaccordions.com/used.html?style=C.+BUTTON+BOXES.

Item #s 3101, 3107, 3140, 3141 are the BCC# offerings.  If you can shed any light on the quality of these boxes I would apprieciate it very much. 

Brian

Brian,
That's interesting reading. It's a pity there are no photos.

I've never come across the Excelsior Hibernian BCC# models in the UK. Perhaps a knowledgeable Irish member could tell us whether they are encountered in Ireland. It's possible they were made only for the US market.

Excelsior is generally regarded as a very good make. The company was started in the US by Italians, and they opened a facory in Castelfidardo, Italy, post WW2. Whether the US operation continued, I don't know. There are many Excelsior piano accordions in Scotland, and they are well regarded. I had an older Excelsior 5-row for a while, and it was very well made.

Excelsior was one of the last Italian factories to do accordion building from start to finish in-house. Now part of Pigini, I don't know if that's still the case with Excelsior. In any event, a low-volume product like BCC#s could well have been contracted out.

Regarding the ones you're looking at:
Item 3101, with 45 basses Ab to E. You would definitely miss the B row, and possibly the F# and C# as well. I have a 2-row BC with 50 bass, Ab to B, and do miss the F# row, C# less often. Personally, I wouldn't chose the 45 bass option.
Item 3107, data says 60 bass, description says 80 bass. ?
Item 3140, 60 bass, has 4/4 sets of reeds (4 sets in bass), whereas
Item 3141, 80 bass, has 4/5 sets of reeds (5 sets in bass). This one sounds very similar to 37 treble, 80 bass models made by Paolo Soprani, Dino Bafetti, Borsini, etc.
Perhaps the 60 bass models have fewer treble buttons? Saying that, I never use the lowest 3 buttons on the 37 button Paolo Soprani, so a 34 button, 60 bass instrument sounds very appealing.

If you ever managed to get any pictures of these Hibernian models, we'd be interested in seeing them.

Bill

[Brian G]

Bill

Great input, thanks again.  I am trying to do my homework this time before I buy.  I didn't do it when I bought my first box.  Just one quick question....would the 60 bass setup be 12X5?

Brian

[Bill Young]

Just one quick question....would the 60 bass setup be 12X5?

I would hope so. However, it could be 10x6, which wouldn't be as useful, in my opinion. Better check.

Bill

[triskel]

I've never come across the Excelsior Hibernian BCC# models in the UK. Perhaps a knowledgeable Irish member could tell us whether they are encountered in Ireland. It's possible they were made only for the US market.

Bill,

I've never seen one in Ireland. Mind you, I've only ever seen that Hibernians description used for accordions sold in the USA.

[Brian G]

 Hello again Bill

I think this a picture/description of one of the Hibernians mentioned above in this thread.  What do you think about it?  I hope the link below works.  It appears to be and Elite III copy.

Brian

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280264301352#ebayphotohosting

[Brian G]

Bill

It appears that link doesn't work.  Maybe an attachment will work.

Brian

[george garside]

Bill

It appears that link doesn't work.  Maybe an attachment will work.

Brian

that looks a very nice compact box although 5 couplers would be quite sufficient for most purposes. Pity its not available in the UK.

george

[Brian G]

Hi George

I have pasted below a description of the Hibernian box that appeared on the ebay listing.  I think these are the boxes that I mentioned above, about which Bill Young commented.  Any advice or comment you have would, as usual, be appreciated.

Brian

AN ELITE III PAOLO SOPRANI HAS 37 TREBLE DIATONIC NOTES BCC# AND 80 BASS STRADELLA BUTTONS LIKE A PIANO ACCORDION-COMMERCIAL REEDS..NO PICK-UPS I HAVE TWO OF THESE...33 TREBLE PUSH AND PULL DIATONIC NOTES....ONE WITH STRADELLA 60 BASSES-ALL THE NOTES OF THE SCALE..AND ONE WITH 45 BASSES-LIKE A PIANO ACCORDION. WITH THE . EXTRA LIGHT WEIGHT..BEST 4/5 SETS OF HAND MADE REEDS..FINEST MONO SENNHEISER PICK-UPS..THESE ACCORDIONS ARE ONLY 4 AND 5 YEARS OLD..OWNED BY AN 80 YEAR OLD GENTLEMEN..WHO HAD MANY ACCORDIONS CASE, STRAPS, AND CORD INCLUDED...AND THE ACCORDIONS ARE LIKE NEW 9 TREBLE TONE CHANGES...TWO BASS CHANGES AND ONLY PLAYED IN HIS HOUSE-WITH THE SPECIFICATIONS TO BE LIGHT WEIGHT AND TO BE THE BEST... THESE INSTRUMENTS WERE MADE SPECIAL BY THE EXCELSIOR ACCORDION CO.. AND NOW HE CANT PLAY ANY ACCORDION SO TO MAKE ONE OF THESE ACCORDIONS NOW.THE COST WOULD BE ABOUT $5500

[Bill Young]

Bill

It appears that link doesn't work.  Maybe an attachment will work.

Brian

that looks a very nice compact box although 5 couplers would be quite sufficient for most purposes. Pity its not available in the UK.

george

Brian,
I echo George's comment - that's a really nice looking box, and the spec reads very well. 34 buttons (not 33); I wonder whether they left out the highest or lowest 3 cf. the Paolo Soprani. If you were able to acquire one of these with 60 basses, I think you'd have an excellent box.

Bill

[george garside]

Hi George

I have pasted below a description of the Hibernian box that appeared on the ebay listing.  I think these are the boxes that I mentioned above, about which Bill Young commented.  Any advice or comment you have would, as usual, be appreciated.

Brian

AN ELITE III PAOLO SOPRANI HAS 37 TREBLE DIATONIC NOTES BCC# AND 80 BASS STRADELLA BUTTONS LIKE A PIANO ACCORDION-COMMERCIAL REEDS..NO PICK-UPS I HAVE TWO OF THESE...33 TREBLE PUSH AND PULL DIATONIC NOTES....ONE WITH STRADELLA 60 BASSES-ALL THE NOTES OF THE SCALE..AND ONE WITH 45 BASSES-LIKE A PIANO ACCORDION. WITH THE . EXTRA LIGHT WEIGHT..BEST 4/5 SETS OF HAND MADE REEDS..FINEST MONO SENNHEISER PICK-UPS..THESE ACCORDIONS ARE ONLY 4 AND 5 YEARS OLD..OWNED BY AN 80 YEAR OLD GENTLEMEN..WHO HAD MANY ACCORDIONS CASE, STRAPS, AND CORD INCLUDED...AND THE ACCORDIONS ARE LIKE NEW 9 TREBLE TONE CHANGES...TWO BASS CHANGES AND ONLY PLAYED IN HIS HOUSE-WITH THE SPECIFICATIONS TO BE LIGHT WEIGHT AND TO BE THE BEST... THESE INSTRUMENTS WERE MADE SPECIAL BY THE EXCELSIOR ACCORDION CO.. AND NOW HE CANT PLAY ANY ACCORDION SO TO MAKE ONE OF THESE ACCORDIONS NOW.THE COST WOULD BE ABOUT $5500

I have never come across a poor exelsior so agree with Bill , I would howevr add that I never buy a box unseen (or more importantly unheard!)unless it is a huge bargain on which I could get my money back if I didn't like the way it is tuned.  This is always a matter of personal preference hence the wet/dry arguments etc. & a complete retune is expensive.   even within wet or dry  there are umpteen variations eg I much prefer the shand morino tuning to the paulo soprani sound although I don't dislike the latter.  I generally dislike anything on the dry side particularly if a 4 voice which can on rare occsions when dryness may be wanted  be played dead dry by using the concert pitch reed & the low reed together giving a sort of 2 voice dryness like 2 bees in a bucket!  My casali was retuned in Scotland  to something approximating to the Shand Morino sound but obviously not the geniiune article cos of poorer reeds & I suppose poorer everything else - nevertheless a avery pleasant & lightweight box to play.

george