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[EeeJay]

But that was also the year in which Hohner was forced to adopt the Fuehrersprinzip and factory life became increasingly politicised, whilst the firm was criticised, around then, by the Nazis for "trivialising" the swastika by putting it on some of their harmonicas...  

Then again - in the late 1940's there were German and Austrian laws bought in expressly forbidding the use of particular symbols, devices, scripts, words, flags, Nazi salute, etc. etc... recent thwarted attempts to introduce this as pan-EU law too... So why/how did the postwar Double Ray get round this strict proscription? And why the heck put the swastika on an item intended solely for the English speaking market, in the decades after WW2?

It only disappeared from the new Black-Dots relatively recently.

Not surprised that the Chinese ditched the swastika on the Double Ray though... it's regarded as an important symbol of the Falun Gong movement... which goes back waaaay longer than the monorchic corporal...

Ed J

[triskel]

I did say that only original catalogues would enable accurate dating and yours would seem to provide a lot of the answers.

Bruce,

The one I'm quoting from at the moment is an extremely informative 72-page one - if only there were more like it! It is "Catalogue No. 700 of Hohner, Koch, Kalbe, Gessner and Regal Accordeons", and since it includes Koch (officially taken over by Hohner on 1st January 1929), and the instruments described in it are an intriguing mix of "old-style" models from the '20s, and "modern" ones from the '30s, I'm dating it circa 1929-30, though I'll see if I can get confirmation of that.

Makes a lot of sense because the "Holzbrand" pictured in the book I quoted just did not "look" 1914.  Goodness knows where they arrived at that date unless they took the owners advice without question.

That may well be the case...

Presumably the "Patent applied for" refers to the introduction of the still current pressed steel/plastic button keyboard action??

That's right:

"A new and accurate mechanism for the treble and bass parts which is of tremendous durability and absolutely unaffected by weather influences. Very solid construction on both sides, noiseless and almost frictionless working levers, absolutely compact shutting with exceptionally good valve opening capacity. It is quite impossible for the keys to scrape against each other or to jam.

This new type of construction is a far better combination than any previous one for the open and closed keyboard.

In this new construction the valve and key levers are made of one piece of metal, each lever contains two holes for the axle, this rests in a precise foundation while the simplicity of the mechanism is a great advantage for accurate and faultless working. The springs and valves are constructed and placed in such a way that they can work to their full advantage and can neither shift their position nor fall off."

         

"As a further patent (applied for) we have brought out a new cover fastener and interior locking device.

Through this invention the bass as well as the treble cover may be detached without the necessity of unscrewing the holding screws. The fastening hooks serve the purpose of feet rests for the accordeons as well as clasps for securing the cover, scratching or damaging of the cover can not be caused through opening or closing the hooks.

The interior shutting device.

All accordeons of the Vienna style with poker work designs are fitted with modern and practical adjustable interior shutting devices. This must not be confused with the already-known cheap wooden screw shutting apparatus. After detaching the cover a screwdriver can be inserted through the perforated hand strap and the screw can either be losened [sic] or tightened."

and I would guess that the G and NG stood for Goldbrand and NussGoldbrand.

I expect so.

Despite the information you gave, I am still wondering about one model that I have. It is to all intents a "pokerwork" but has an oddball stepped keyboard,wood & wire levers, MOP buttons and a large "push in" air button.

I used to have one of those myself, that I really loved until I let a friend have it for a while and he got it retuned... 

Mine was in black-natural with Bandoneon (octave) tuning and labelled "Voces de Bandoneon", but they'd already been superseded by model No. 7565/21/8 with a "Hohner keyboard" in the catalogue I'm talking about:

"Polished natural case with poker work designs. Hohner keyboard, single plates with steel or bronze reeds, substantial bellows with modern pinlock and leather straps.

These instruments can be supplied in the colour:

black-natural with the additional mark "S" [probably "Schwarz" = black] in octave tuning."

Perhaps you will tell me how to get a picture from PC onto these pages ...

I'm frustrated with the small results I'm getting on here, but I'm using Photobucket.com to host mine at the moment.

Do not get excited about the Forbes catalogue - I only have a couple of pages from it, relating mainly to Black Dot/ Trichord plus a couple of typewritten stock lists ...

That's a pity, it sounded promising.

(mentions a s/h Soprani four row in B/C/C#D for £35 !)

The only Scottish 4-row Paolo Soprani that I'm aware of would be James Brown's, and my speculation has always been that that must have been B/C/C#/D (giving him A and E with G and D fingering) so I'm glad to hear of a documented example.

Regarding the Swastikas - as you say they were on all Black Dots, albeit in a stylized form, to fill the gap under the "Double Ray" but I cannot recall seeing them on any Ericas.

They're only ever on Black Dots, never on Ericas.

edited photos

[triskel]

And why the heck put the swastika on an item intended solely for the English speaking market, in the decades after WW2?

It does seem bizarre, and I'm not categorically saying that it is intended to be a Nazi swastika, but the Double-Ray did appear at just the right time for it to be one...

Maybe nobody noticed?   

[Malcolm Clapp]

Many thanks for the info, Stephen.

[triskel]

Despite the information you gave, I am still wondering about one model that I have. It is to all intents a "pokerwork" but has an oddball stepped keyboard,wood & wire levers, MOP buttons and a large "push in" air button.

I used to have one of those myself, that I really loved until I let a friend have it for a while and he got it retuned... 

Mine was in black-natural with Bandoneon (octave) tuning and labelled "Voces de Bandoneon", but they'd already been superseded by model No. 7565/21/8 with a "Hohner keyboard" in the catalogue I'm talking about:

"Polished natural case with poker work designs. Hohner keyboard, single plates with steel or bronze reeds, substantial bellows with modern pinlock and leather straps.

These instruments can be supplied in the colour:

black-natural with the additional mark "S" [probably "Schwarz" = black] in octave tuning."

Got it!

I found a few more Hohner catalogues today, including a French one from the late 1920s (possibly May 1927 from the printer's mark, but certainly after the 1926 Philadelphia Exposition and before the "Hohner keyboard") and it illustrates and lists this model:

"No. 3865/21/8. 21 touches, 8 basses, Boîte ornée de superbes dessins pyrogravés en teinte marron, Clavier découvert, Soufflet très robuste de 16 plis. Sonorité homogène bien timbrée.

Ce modèle peut aussi ètre livré dans les teintes et exécutions suivantes:
Rouge triple voix
Vert double voix ayant dispositif de basses couplées
Noir accord Octave spécial très grave et puissant"

[triskel]

1. Why is the modern style pokerwork designated model #2815 in the USA and #2915 in UK and elsewhere? Is there a difference?

"No. 2815" (or "No. 2815 1/2") was the original German designation for the model, which (apart from the absence of fingerboard decoration and the anchor + "Marca Regtrd" logo) isn't significantly different.

2. Marca Registrada. Roughly translated as "Trade Mark" I assume, but why in (?)Spanish/Portuguese and not in German? Could it be that this design was originally intended for the South American market? ... Kurt also told me that he sometimes received shipments from Germany incorrectly consigned and meant for the Hohner agent in Argentina. If  Marca Regisrada models had indeed been intended for the South American market, maybe that's why so many of them are found in Australia.

Quite possibly those particular pokerwork designs were originally intended for the South American market, in fact I used to have an octave-tuned one with a metal label in Spanish reading "Voces de Bandoneon" (= "Bandoneon tuning"), but you seem to find them everywhere, and the 2815 I have at the moment was originally sold in Portugal!

The blond pressed wood pokerworks are quite commonly found in Australia. According to the former longtime Hohner agent in Australia, Kurt Jacob, he once told me that he had a large shipment of both single row (#1140) and double row (#2915) models with this finish that arrived just before the outbreak of WWll (1939). These were soon removed from the shelves, not to reappear for sale until after the end of the war.

Of a number of these shown to me over the years, several had retail receipts from the late 1940s, but Kurt insisted that they were built prewar. The design of these is of the latest blond Hohners I have seen, the same as in some postwar Hohner catalogues before the c1955 (?) introduction of the black and gold pokerwork.

The earliest evidence that I have for "# 2815" is a small German "Hohner Handharmonikas" catalogue that has a revised 1st January 1938 price list tacked in (though some of the models illustrated are from earlier in the decade, and one has an emblem that I'd associate with the 1936 Berlin Olympics on it), which lists "No. 2815/21/8/2" (so the catalogue must date from 1936-7).

The easiest way to tell the difference between pre- and post-war examples of "No. 2815" (and other similar models) seems to lie with the "Patent applied for" combined fastening hooks/feet that hold the bass cover in place on the 1930s ones:

         

Whilst the later ones have seperate feet, and the cover is held on with a screw and washer:

edited photos

[finnhorse]

According to "Ewig jung trotz vieler Falten", colloquialised to "History Unfolds", the first "pokerworks" were about in in 1914 but not as we now recognise them.
They are listed  as the "Holzbrand" and, apart from the grille, are very similar to the Hohner "Koch" of 1929/31. They share identical internals and keyboards, only the embossed patterns of the casings differing, the Koch having traditional roses and mitred corners without metal cappings and two less bellow folds.
... Although the term Pokerwork is now the norm I have never seen the word actually used by Hohner, only Holzbrand and Goldbrand??

Frankly I'm astonished at how badly wrong the book is about the instrument in those photos, which looks like a 1929/31 model because that's just what it is, displaying all the features of Hohner's "Patent applied for" of that era - I know exactly how they're made because I've got one:

... and I've got the catalogue that describes these new features!

The model is one of Hohner's Series 7200, and the correct catalogue designation (circa 1929-30) is "No. 7215/21/8", described as:

"Polished natural case with beautiful poker work designs (anemony pattern) Hohner keyboard, interior locking device, single plates with steel or bronze reeds, substantial bellows, bellow frames covered with cloth and leather straps."

and
 
"Instruments with the numbers 21/8 and 21/12 of the above series are also supplied in the colours:
black-gold with additional mark "G"
or walnut-gold with additional mark "NG"
In addition these two types will be supplied with octave tuning."

Whilst the old Koch "Burnt-Wood" (as they described them in their catalogue) accordions were rather fancier, like this one that I have (the reeds bearing Koch's mark, not Hohner's):

So far as I see the only difference I see between these and the "Honey Coloured " ones that you mention is that the latter were fitted with todays  current small framed bellows and were embossed with the early Marca Registrada/Hohner Accordeon/ "Kalbe" Anchor logo and "Shell Pattern, the same as early black and gold models.

The origins of those models are very apparent in similar designs also shown in the 1929-30 catalogue, all with the small-framed bellows - "No. 7665/21/8" has the same "blue bell pattern" poker work design and Stradella corners, already available in optional black-gold, whilst the "modern" metal grille can be seen on others such as "No. 3515 1/2". The same catalogue also shows single-row melodeons with the same "star pattern" poker work on the sides as today's ones.

I have never fathomed out exactly when the equivalent celluloid "Toilet seat" versions were first produced I know they were about in the early fifties, even as early Double Rays.

Gold, silver, white, black, blue, pink or green "Celluloid veneer instruments with Hohner keyboard" appear as early as the 1929-30 catalogue, as model Nos. 120 - 180.

BTW  I think strap brackets were only fitted by the dealers (pity some of them had little idea!) and that original thumb sraps are always rivetted onto plastic & late wooden  keyboards/screwed onto early wooden ones. 

As one of "the dealers" for 35 years, I can confirm that that used to be the case.

Triskel, do you have any photos of the bass side of the Hohner box in the top picture?

I recently purchased a Concertone that looks very similar, save for the branding.  I thought it was a re-badged 1920s-era Hohner product.  Concertone was the brand given by Montgomery Ward for all their musical instruments, outsourced to different plants across Europe and the US.  The differences I can spot are 1) non Hohner-like sound hole pattern in the bass panel (the spreads seem too close together) 2) slightly different pressed wood pattern 3) difference in keyboard shape and 4) the air button, which from the photos I have (which are lousy) seems to be a button, rather than a lever.  They made other boxes for export not bearing the Hohner name.









I'll know more when it arrives hopefully this week.

[Theo]

Not just a different keyboard shape, but a completely different keyboard action, which probably means it is the type of action which was replaced by the one Stephen describes as being new in 1929/30.

[pipives]

I don't know much about the history of really old hohners, but I'm finding this topic really really interesting!

[finnhorse]

That's basically what I meant by 'shape' because the open action wouldn't fit inside the case-style closed keyboard.  I'm dying to know what the reeds look like.  It comes with a booklet dated 1924. 

[triskel]

Triskel, do you have any photos of the bass side of the Hohner box in the top picture?

finnhorse,

I have, in fact it's in my post that you're quoting ...

... but it's not going to help you much ...

I recently purchased a Concertone that looks very similar, save for the branding.  I thought it was a re-badged 1920s-era Hohner product.  Concertone was the brand given by Montgomery Ward for all their musical instruments, outsourced to different plants across Europe and the US.  The differences I can spot are 1) non Hohner-like sound hole pattern in the bass panel (the spreads seem too close together) 2) slightly different pressed wood pattern 3) difference in keyboard shape and 4) the air button, which from the photos I have (which are lousy) seems to be a button, rather than a lever.

 
... since the Concertone in your pictures is a pre-Hohner Koch, very similar to their model "No. 42" in my U.S. Koch catalogue from the beginning of the 1920s (since it contains a loose-leaf price list dated July 1 1921). That wind-key is typical of Koch by the way.

They made other boxes for export not bearing the Hohner name.

They most certainly did, and later Concertones were built by Hohner.

I'm dying to know what the reeds look like.

I expect it will have the Koch "Mira" (a mountain antelope, or chamois) trade mark stamped into zinc reedplates, though the reeds may be brass - it says "Genuine Ajax Reeds" in the catalogue!

[finnhorse]

Thank you for the pointer to the photo.  I read the thread yesterday and failed to re-read before posting.   It was early here.  No coffee = no sympathy, I know I know.. :)

Upon arrival, if it would be helpful or interesting to anyone, I could post actual dimensions of the bellows and blocks, and photos of the guts.  It needs work, obviously.  I've searched around online and can't find a list of dates/factories for the Concertone accordion line.  The saxes and other brass instruments seem well documented by comparison.  I know the factory changed from Bohemia to Czechoslovakia at some point.  If this is a pre-Hohner Koch, and not Hohner, that would imply 3 different factories.  The later celluloid diatonic models look just like old Delicias, and I found one which looks more like something from Klingenthal..   

[triskel]

Upon arrival, if it would be helpful or interesting to anyone, I could post actual dimensions of the bellows and blocks, and photos of the guts.

The catalogue gives only "Top 11 x 5 1/2 inches."

If this is a pre-Hohner Koch, and not Hohner, that would imply 3 different factories.  The later celluloid diatonic models look just like old Delicias, and I found one which looks more like something from Klingenthal..   

That wouldn't surprise me at all, indeed often not all "house-brand" instruments in the same catalogue are from the same factory, and sometimes not even the same country!

[finnhorse]

I'm confused, the catalog you have: are those the dimensions for your box or mine?  A Hohner catalog, a Koch catalog or a Montgomery & Ward's?

I should have said 4 factories were likely.  Those being Koch, then Hohner Trossingen, Czech., and Klingenthal at some point.  I think multiple plants were operating simultaneously in the DDR and Czech. for sure, and if Hohner bought the Koch works along with the rest of the company, then perhaps multiple plants were working in the beginning as well but it's all speculation.  I have not seen any post-war obvious Hohner Concertones.  But it would make sense if they owned the Koch factory and their own Hohner plant, and made their parts differently in each factory, further confounding the dating being attempted.

[triskel]

I'm confused, the catalog you have: are those the dimensions for your box or mine?  A Hohner catalog, a Koch catalog or a Montgomery & Ward's?

Sorry, I've modified my post to (hopefully) make it more evident that I'm talking about model "No. 42" in a U.S. Koch cataloge, from the beginning of the 1920s. (Though the measurements of my Hohner are exactly the same!)

I should have said 4 factories were likely.  Those being Koch, then Hohner Trossingen, Czech., and Klingenthal at some point.

I don't have a Montgomery Ward catalogue (and I do know what use most of the originals got put to!) but I'd expect to see models from more than one factory in any given copy of it, though not identified as such - that would have been quite usual with "house brands", and still is for that matter!

[finnhorse]

All clear now.  Thank you for the Koch reference.  I thought Hohner had already acquired Koch by this time and was producing exports slightly differently to avoid stepping on their own patent.  The overlap between the two is a fuzzy zone.

As for the MW catalogs, well... they're not exactly what you'd call "ultra-soft.."   

[triskel]

I thought Hohner had already acquired Koch by this time and was producing exports slightly differently to avoid stepping on their own patent.  The overlap between the two is a fuzzy zone.

No, like I said, Koch were officially taken over by Hohner on 1st January 1929. Then it starts getting fuzzy...

As for the MW catalogs, well... they're not exactly what you'd call "ultra-soft.."   

Yes, but then again, you can't read the "ultra-soft" stuff... 

[Pete Dunk]

Yes, but then again, you can't read the "ultra-soft" stuff... 

You can read this one.

I'll get me coat ...

[triskel]

I'll get me coat ...

Aye, thy'd better! T'tone o' yon thread's gone right down't tubes... 

[an bosca ceoil]

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