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Author Topic: fairly simple ornamentation/ bass runs?  (Read 3573 times)

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sqwzboxstudent

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fairly simple ornamentation/ bass runs?
« on: August 31, 2008, 09:46:53 PM »

hello eveyone!
does any one know where i maybe able to find any info telling me some simple ornamentation tricks or how to play a bass run? when they should be used ect?
i play D/G box  ;)
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george garside

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Re: fairly simple ornamentation/ bass runs?
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2008, 10:10:43 PM »

hello eveyone!
does any one know where i maybe able to find any info telling me some simple ornamentation tricks or how to play a bass run? when they should be used ect?
i play D/G box  ;)

My advice for what its worth is that if you are new to playing a DG box it pays to learn to play  tunes well  in a simple unornemented fashion  before  experimenting with ornementation, bass runs or whatever.  By well I am talking about developing an inherent rhythm in the melody, attention to dynamics  and  phrasing - much of which is achieved by delicate & accurate bellows control plus  a nice 'crisp' style of fingering.  ONce this is achieved  ornementation can be looked at  but importantly ornementation  or  bass runs  will not enhance  a less than very well played basic tune - it is in fact likely to make it sound worse.  ~Otheres may disagree!

george :)
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sqwzboxstudent

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Re: fairly simple ornamentation/ bass runs?
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2008, 10:22:13 PM »

thanks george, ive picked up the melodeon fairly easily over the last eight months i can play a fair few tune with good regular bass accompiniment, and ive got the knack for the air valve, i practice my scales and stuff everyday, i play quite a few dublinners tunes like mcalpines fussiliers, on the banks of the roses , whiskey in the jar, all of the favourites, along with a few gypsy dance tunes like the ladies step dance,
should i be trying more challenging songs to learn before i go onto ornamentation?
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Theo

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Re: fairly simple ornamentation/ bass runs?
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2008, 11:38:19 PM »

Do you play scales on the bass too?  If not thats a good start, and once familiar with where the bass notes are you will find numerous opportunities for bass runs.  The English Tune Bonny Kate fits nicely with a bass run from G up to D, and you can even slip in the E at the end though it sounds a bot naff.  The rest of  the scale fits the tune very well.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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george garside

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Re: fairly simple ornamentation/ bass runs?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2008, 11:41:46 PM »

thanks george, ive picked up the melodeon fairly easily over the last eight months i can play a fair few tune with good regular bass accompiniment, and ive got the knack for the air valve, i practice my scales and stuff everyday, i play quite a few dublinners tunes like mcalpines fussiliers, on the banks of the roses , whiskey in the jar, all of the favourites, along with a few gypsy dance tunes like the ladies step dance,
should i be trying more challenging songs to learn before i go onto ornamentation?

only you can decide  weather your playing is good bad or indifferent although it can help if you have someone who will listen and give you an honest opinion.  There is often a great deal that can be done to improve  playing without recourse to ornementation which should be used sparingly & only where you (& your listeners if any)   feel sure that it will enhace a particular bit of a tune. - if it doesnt enhance it it must detract from it!  Sometimes very simple - in fact totally free of charge! ways of ornementing  can be very effective  e.g. stop playing the bass  when there is a 'fussy' bit of the tune e.g. the run down in harvest home.  This has 2 effects - the treble immediately increases slightly in volume as all the air tries to get out that end and the 'tricky bit' is highlighted by the abscence of 'mushy bass'which is what ornementation is all about.  Another theoretically simple ornementation, but one that needs much practice is to  replace a longer note with a 3 finger triplet - this is relatively easy to do on its own but the skill comes in fitting it into a fairly fast tune so that it sounds as if it should be there!

just keep at it - no hard & fast rules as to when & where to try a bit of ornemetation.

george
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Alison Scott

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Re: fairly simple ornamentation/ bass runs?
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2008, 07:53:29 AM »

thanks george, ive picked up the melodeon fairly easily over the last eight months i can play a fair few tune with good regular bass accompiniment, and ive got the knack for the air valve, i practice my scales and stuff everyday, i play quite a few dublinners tunes like mcalpines fussiliers, on the banks of the roses , whiskey in the jar, all of the favourites, along with a few gypsy dance tunes like the ladies step dance,
should i be trying more challenging songs to learn before i go onto ornamentation?

Well done for learning so much so quickly! I think John Kirkpatrick's DVDs are very good for explaining a lot of the options for ornamentation on the G/D melodeon very straightforwardly; obviously that's more for the English style than the Irish.

Have you had a chance to get out much? The best way to really test whether you've got a good understanding of tunes is to play them in sessions. My experience is that things that sound splendid in my living room tend to come out a bit rubbish in public. One of the things I noticed too at Towersey last week was players who had clearly learnt a tune very 'thoroughly' at home, and played it with lots of ornamentation and twiddles; but the effect was that simple tunes were rendered unrecognisable. That's not the effect you're after! So make sure that the base tune is absolutely rock solid and crisp before adding extras.

sqwzboxstudent

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Re: fairly simple ornamentation/ bass runs?
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2008, 04:07:19 PM »

hey all thanks for the replies iv found them a great help, i did play in the pub at dartmoor folk festival, with some family
the only thing i had a problem with was not having yet learnt some of the songs, but hope fully il get there soon,
all of your help is much appreciated
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Robin Harrison

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Re: fairly simple ornamentation/ bass runs?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2008, 01:28:15 AM »

Hi Theo............do you have the computer chops to be able to post a sound file of that bass run for Bonny Kate ? It would be very good to hear it
              Regs
                        Robin
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Theo

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Re: fairly simple ornamentation/ bass runs?
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2008, 10:03:09 AM »

Hi Theo............do you have the computer chops to be able to post a sound file of that bass run for Bonny Kate ? It would be very good to hear it
              Regs
                        Robin

Robin, have you yet learned to play the G scale on the bass buttons?  You need to do that before putting it with the tune.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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smiley

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Re: fairly simple ornamentation/ bass runs?
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2008, 12:06:23 PM »

I think I picked up the bass run in Bonny Kate from the first track on the New Victory Band LP called One More Dance And Then. The CD version is listed as Backshift BASH CD47. Definitely worth buying!
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Hello

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Re: fairly simple ornamentation/ bass runs?
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2008, 12:45:39 PM »

By bass run I'm assuming you mean the notes (rather than chord) buttons of the bass, played in quick succession.

There are 3 main runs

1) Playing a run of bass notes whilst holding a note or chord on the treble.
2) Playing the same notes on the bass as on the treble
3) Playing different notes on the bass as on the treble.


1)
This is useful when repeating a section of a tune. You can hold the last note of the treble and lead into the repeat with a run. In the key of G a common one is d c b d g, but you'll find many more.

2)
This is quite useful for a bit of variety and adding weight to a phrase, particularly if you play in octaves on the treble.

3)
This is probably the most creative and you can create some really nice sounds using counterpoint, where the pitch of the bass notes goes in the opposite direction to the treble. This sort of thing works well with an arpeggio.
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