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Author Topic: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?  (Read 5263 times)

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Thrupenny Bit

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2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« on: November 22, 2011, 07:53:33 PM »

Hi All,
I have a Castagnari Tommy which has a stop on the right hand to bring in low notes, a 3rd voice, into the melody. I invariably play my Tommy with the keyboard end stop down, thereby just using the 2 voices as it's default position.
I often pull the stop and bring in the 3rd voice for a couple of waltzes, cos it 'feels right' to thicken it up a bit, my stop simply bringing in the low reeds on the treble, but that's about it  for my uses so far.
( My repertoire is pretty much solid English, I think I have 1 French tune, so don't often go where a thick sound is used much )

I realise it's down to your personal preferences, but wonder how and when others use an optional 3rd voice - or do you keep it up and thereby use it as a 3 voice box for default?
Just wonderin........
Q


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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Lester

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2011, 08:01:39 PM »

When I first had my Tommy I played it all the time with the low reed in play. Then I had it tuned  ;D
Then I only used the low reed if I was playing in G and heading up above the high B on a regular basis during the tune.

Tufty

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2011, 08:46:58 PM »

My default position is third voice on and bass thirds off but I play quite a lot of French stuff. With all three voices the D row is almost a substitute one row box! In sessions it depends what other instruments are there - lots of whistles and English concertinas and I use the thicker sound to balance them out. I would hate to have paid the extra cash for a three voice and not use it!
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2011, 10:15:39 PM »

'With three voices the D row is almost a substitue one row box!'
Yes - I have tried that a few times, and as you say, it has nearly that depth of sound as a 1 row.
I must try and use that more - another good way of utilising the 3rd voice.

LdT of this parish has pointed out that the 3rd voice makes it easier to hear in a session, and I have tried it a few times, especially recently as a long term friend and cracking whistle player has occasionally taken to Alto sax, which is often within close range of me trying to hear what I'm playing..... and not up to her brilliant whistle playing  ::)

As you say, I've paid for it, I might as well use it more  :|||:
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

george garside

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2011, 10:18:11 PM »

Like Lester I use the low reeds to thicken up the top end of the G row  and like Threepeny Bit i also bring in the low set for waltzes. The low set also comes in handy at times when leading large musicians sessions ( at which small musicians are of course also welcome!)

 There are many other uses for the low set and no rules as to when and where ( unlike some piano accordion music that provides detailed instructions as to where to swithc in or out one or other of ?13 couplers). AS a very rough rule of thumb I tend to go for 2 voice for fast  jigs, reels etc and 3 voices for waltzes  and some Bavarian polka s and brass band(ish)  tunes. but  notwithstanding that the choice depends very much on the particular tune and the way I want it to sound and sometimes I use 2 and sometimes 3 vooices for the same tune.  

I would much prefer an accesible switch behind keyboard or a grille mounted coupler so the voices could be changed on the hoof  and would like the facility to just bring in a single high or low voice, but we can't have everything in a reasonably priced simple 2 row box.

george
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george garside

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2011, 10:21:18 PM »

'With three voices the D row is almost a substitue one row box!'
 

Try playing at dusty end of D row using 3 voices plus some countermelody or whatever with thumb at the low end  ? equivelent of at least 6 voices depending on how many top end buttons are down at any given moment in time!

george
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Lester

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2011, 10:30:29 PM »

.  
I would much prefer an accesible switch behind keyboard or a grille mounted coupler so the voices could be changed on the hoof  and would like the facility to just bring in a single high or low voice, but we can't have everything in a reasonably priced simple 2 row box.

george

You could always try this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLxfc7l63Pg

Telemorris

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2011, 12:24:46 AM »


You could always try this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLxfc7l63Pg

I looked at a number of his videos and didn't find anything about the melodeon. What is the melodeon he's playing and the keys? His playing is lovely!

Thanks for posting the link.
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Owen Woods

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2011, 01:18:33 AM »

It's a D/G Saltarelle. Not sure of the model (early connemara III?)
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Lester

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2011, 01:19:55 AM »


You could always try this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLxfc7l63Pg

I looked at a number of his videos and didn't find anything about the melodeon. What is the melodeon he's playing and the keys? His playing is lovely!

Thanks for posting the link.

It's an old style Saltarelle Connamara 3 in D/G.

X:42
T:Blossom and the Rain
C:Brian Peters
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:G
E3 F GA|(3BcB A2 B2|g3 f ed|G6|
A3 B (3cBA|fA eG dF|e3 f (3gfe|B6|
E3 F GA|(3BcB A2 B2|g3 f ed|G6|
A3 B (3cBA|F D3 FG|E6-|E6|
e3 e e2|g3 f e2|d3 B dB|g6|
f3 f f2|(3fgf e2 d2|e3 f (3gfe|B6|
e3 e e2|g3 f e2|d3 B dB|b6|
a3 g f2|fg- g2 fd|e2 Be Ge|E6||

« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 08:24:12 AM by Lester »
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Owen Woods

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2011, 01:21:41 AM »

I got it right ;D
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Marje

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2011, 10:13:00 AM »

M
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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2011, 10:20:55 AM »

Woops, what happened there? All I tried to do was take off the Caps Lock and before I knew it I had sent a cryptic message.

As I was saying...

Mine is a three-voice box, with stops 1 and 3 an octave apart and stop 2 tuned fractionally above stop 1. My default choice is to play using 1 and 3, which give quite a dry sound but richer than a single stop. I use 2 and 3 (the higher two) when I want a fresher, lighter and wetter sound, and all three together for the full "morris" effect. My choice depends on the type of tune and also the musical context - if there are, say, concertinas or pipes playing too, I may choose to add the middle stop in order to be heard or to hear what I'm playing. I even change mid-tune sometimes, changing the stops for the 3rd time through or something like that.
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Howard Jones

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2011, 01:38:55 PM »

I play a Salterelle Nuage which has 5 stops - one for each of the three treble reed banks, and separate stops to take out the low bass notes and the thirds.

For English music the "default" setting is MM with all the bass reeds.  I'll sometimes use LMM if I want a one-row sound.  Sometimes I'll us L M, this has what I think of as a bit of a "French" sound, and helps to make the high notes less squeaky when I get up to the dusty end.

I take out the thirds for French tunes, or where I want to imply minor chords, or sometimes for Scandinavian, especially if the fiddler is playing microtones.  I'll take out the low bass as well when I'm playing Irish and don't want the basses to dominate - it's also easier to play fast bellows reversals.

Basically I just use what I think sounds best for that particular tune.

howard mitchell

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2011, 02:02:46 PM »

Similar to Mr Jones (Us Howards have to stick together) I use all the combinations available in different circumstances.
I have a Saltarelle Pastourelle III in D/G with individual stops for each of the MML reeds, a Bertrand Gaillard in C/G with a lever behind the keyboard to remove the L reed and a Dallappe in C/F witha similar lever.

The usage does vary a bit with the pitch. MML on the G/D fills out the high notes whereas MML on the C/G is very low on the C row.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awJeUCTWr1s MM on the D/G
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHX4uQY7jcI LMM on the D/G
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1oTz9PvR90 MM on the C/G
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATnSwur7RZ8 LMM on the C/G
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6Vz9xxPO-8 LMM on the F/C

Howard
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2011, 07:44:40 PM »

Thanks all for this, I'll work my way through the links and have a listen.
I think this while voice thing is a bit of uncharted territory for me. My Tommy simply brings in a low set of reeds - or not. Thus far in my melodeon experience I've not had the pleasure of a good twiddle on something else where the selection is more than 'on/off'.
Annoyingly, my only opportunity was somewhat hampered by being somewhat over-refreshed (  :|glug ) when a Mory was swung my way.
My total ability to carefully evaluate this very nice melodeon was somewhat restricted to ' cor innit heavy ? .... )...'  :|bl

Anyway...... off for a quick  :|||: whilst everyone's out, with my stop pulled up ( as they say..... ::) )
cheers
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2011, 08:59:44 PM »

Lester - thanks, a lovely tune, just listening again. Just noticed the delicate chin manoever  :D
...except my Tommy'd remove my front teeth bringing it in by having to pull the stop up!

Howard - some lovely tunes and thanks for the note on which voice is used that's quite clear.
Love the Colloseum, and couldn't help but sing-a-long go into the 'other' version of the Ash Grove ;D

I presume the levers behind the keyboard save learning to 'chin' it, or extract teeth in my case, but am I right in thinking the levers v's stops means the lever versions are heavier to accommodate the mechanisms?
Q
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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Gary P Chapin

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2011, 12:30:54 PM »

I have a Saltarelle Pastourelle III in D/G with individual stops for each of the MML reeds
I also have a Pastourelle III (though in C/G).  On mine the reed is engaged when the stop is down, and off when the stop is up.  This allows for some clever chin action, bringing in the reed half-way through the tune.  This is useful on Breton tunes, when you're using the repetition to whip the crowd into a frenzy.   :o

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pikey

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2011, 03:31:11 PM »

I've got a Dino Black Pearl 3, and vary bringing the low voice in and out quite a lot.

I often start a tune with the low voice out, and then bring it in - it adds variety, and sounds great when playing for dancing.

I also tend to keep the low voice in for Irish tunes , it seems to add depth, or when playing in a session with fiddles (same reason).

My advice is to experiment, and not stick to a formula!
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george garside

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Re: 2 voice boxes with an optional 3rd voice - how do you use them?
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2011, 08:12:01 PM »

[  ]
I also have a Pastourelle III (though in C/G).  On mine the reed is engaged when the stop is down, and off when the stop is up.  This allows for some clever chin action, bringing in the reed half-way through the tune.  This is useful on Breton tunes, when you're using the repetition to whip the crowd into a frenzy.   :o

 

my serenellini  gives 3 voices with knob out and two with it  in.  It is possible to  move hand from keyboard to swiftly push it in (if playing with others so tune  keeps going)  but  is more difficult to move hand , grip it and pull it out swiftly.
george
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