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Author Topic: 3/2 Hornpipes  (Read 18566 times)

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Steve_freereeder

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Re: 3/2 Hornpipes
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2010, 12:56:16 PM »

Apropos of June's TOTP - I found
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1208
which is notated 6/8
Are you sure? When I click on the link you give, it takes me to the Session page which has Rusty Gully in its proper 3/2 time signature. I can't see anything in 6/8 there.

Quote
Is this the 3/2 hornpipe that you are all referring to?
Yes - that's the one.
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Steve
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OwenG

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Re: 3/2 Hornpipes
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2010, 01:00:34 PM »


Are you sure? When I click on the link you give, it takes me to the Session page which has Rusty Gully in its proper 3/2 time signature. I can't see anything in 6/8 there.

Quote

The page the link takes me to has Rusty Gully with a time signature of 3/2, but with only three crotchets rather than minims to the bar. Shouldn't the note lengths be doubled??
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smallgreenwellies

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Re: 3/2 Hornpipes
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2010, 02:17:30 PM »

Sorry - yes, that's the page that I intended, but as has been pointed out, it's not written as 3 minim beats, but three crotchet beats. Hence my thought that you could also write it in 6:8 and group the quavers in two and/or threes thus giving the hemiola effect referred to in other posts. All a matter of stresses/emphasis I guess!
Too much jazz - play the notes, find the groove....
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: 3/2 Hornpipes
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2010, 02:28:19 PM »

Sorry - yes, that's the page that I intended, but as has been pointed out, it's not written as 3 minim beats, but three crotchet beats. Hence my thought that you could also write it in 6:8 and group the quavers in two and/or threes thus giving the hemiola effect referred to in other posts. All a matter of stresses/emphasis I guess!
Too much jazz - play the notes, find the groove....
Ah - yes. I failed to notice that it was written as if in 3/4 not 3/2. Owen is correct. The note lengths should be doubled so that the main beat pulse is a minim. You could notate these hornpipes in 3/4, but the generally accepted convention is to use 3/2.
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Theo

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Re: 3/2 Hornpipes
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2010, 03:40:27 PM »

Apropos of June's TOTP - I found
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1208
which is notated 6/8 -

Following that link, the key signature is 3/2 not 6/8.  Are you refering to their being three crotchets in a bar?   Folk musicians tend to treat key signatures and default note lengths without regard to the "correct" classical notation.  If it were 6/8 then the quavers would be grouped in two lots of three per bar, instead of three lots of two.

As an aside, if you look in the Vickers tune book from the 1750s, which is one of the early sources for this tune, it is notated with alternate bars of 3/2 and 6/8.  Is this what the write intended?  We have no way of knowing, but its fun to play it like that.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Steve_freereeder

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Re: 3/2 Hornpipes
« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2010, 03:52:12 PM »

As an aside, if you look in the Vickers tune book from the 1750s, which is one of the early sources for this tune, it is notated with alternate bars of 3/2 and 6/8.  Is this what the writer intended? 
Very interesting.....

Quote

We have no way of knowing, but its fun to play it like that.
So it is!  :D
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smallgreenwellies

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Re: 3/2 Hornpipes
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2010, 04:39:52 PM »

Don't have the Vickers book, yet....but that would fit with a "1 2, 123,1 2" feel - which really appeals to me!
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Gandy

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Re: 3/2 Hornpipes
« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2010, 04:44:20 PM »

Following that link, the key signature is 3/2 not 6/8.  Are you refering to their being three crotchets in a bar?   Folk musicians tend to treat key signatures and default note lengths without regard to the "correct" classical notation.  If it were 6/8 then the quavers would be grouped in two lots of three per bar, instead of three lots of two.

Looks to me as there's just an error in the ABC code.   Change to L: 1/4 and it comes out looking right.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: 3/2 Hornpipes
« Reply #48 on: June 11, 2010, 05:34:17 PM »

Don't have the Vickers book, yet....but that would fit with a "1 2, 123,1 2" feel - which really appeals to me!
Wouldn't it be: 1 - 2 - 3 - | 123 465 | etc?

So, for Rusty Gully, the 'Vickers way':
Taffa-tiffy rum-tum rum-tum | rump-et-y rump-et-y | etc...

Whereas the 'normal' style of playing RG is:
Taffa-tiffy rum-tum rum-tum | rum-tum rum-tum rum-tum | etc...

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Theo

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Re: 3/2 Hornpipes
« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2010, 11:43:49 AM »

Getting close there Steve,  but to me it feels more like 6/8 bars just have 2 beats, and the strong beat in the middle of the 6/8 bars gives the whole tune a feeling I can only describe as being on a musical roller-coaster.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Steve_freereeder

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Re: 3/2 Hornpipes
« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2010, 02:19:24 PM »

Getting close there Steve,  but to me it feels more like 6/8 bars just have 2 beats, and the strong beat in the middle of the 6/8 bars gives the whole tune a feeling I can only describe as being on a musical roller-coaster.
Exactly!
That's what I was trying to portray in my brown version. Perhaps I should have added some boldness  ;)

Taffa-tiffy rum-tum rum-tum | rump-et-y rump-et-y | etc...
« Last Edit: June 15, 2010, 02:21:53 PM by Steve_freereeder »
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Steve
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Theo

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Re: 3/2 Hornpipes
« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2010, 04:59:48 PM »

Yes, I see what you mean.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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