Topic: "pre melodeon training" (Read 9379 times)

Thrupenny Bit · « **Reply #20 on:** January 22, 2012, 10:30:46 AM »

About 18 months ago everyone had gone out for the day, leaving me and my daughter's borrowed melodeon together for a day.
I ended up with a blinding headache after giving it a go all day, but realised I *could* possibly play this given time, went to Sidmouth a few days later.....and that's why I'm here, guilty as charged M'lud!

I like others managed to borrow a melodeon. That's the key, though I realise it's not always possible.
Mine was borrowed as a spare from my friend who keeps it for others in the morris to have a 'try-out' box. i.e. they can borrow it try and see if they get on with it, then make a purchase later knowing it could work for them. At the time my daughter wanted to try it out.
Others in our side have the odd spare too. I'm sure this is relected in other sides, but difficult if you're not a member of a side.
Those with melodeon playing friends suffering from MAD could help, and I'm sure some shops ( Music Room?) do a hire service where you can hire it before converting it into a sale ( or have I got that wrong?). I think the Devon Squeezebox Foundation hires out too, maybe other folk related organisations might hire as well?

Essentially use your friends as a borrowing libarary if at all possible, then you're trying the real thing as opposed to another instrument that sort of works the same.
Q

Payul · « **Reply #21 on:** January 22, 2012, 10:37:25 AM »

In my younger days I played also the mouth organ, so it helps a lot not being afraid of the push and pull.

So i think this is more cold water fear made up in the mind.
One note is pushed, another one pulled, no big deal.

Playing by ear is another story.
It is a level of musicality.
If you can play by ear on a mouthorgan, you can do it on a piano, guitar, whatever instrument and visa versa.
Once you figured out how the instrument works.

An instrument you play with your brain, not with the hands or the ears. ( so to speak...)
Your brain is not wondering if a note is pushed or pulled.
You tell your brain which note is pushed and which is pulled.
And it will use it as a fact.

so to a new player I would say, try the instrument.
Just like any other instrument.
And be careful. It is addicting.....

malcolmbebb · « **Reply #22 on:** January 22, 2012, 11:30:20 AM »

Quote from: Thrupenny Bit on January 22, 2012, 10:30:46 AM

I think the Devon Squeezebox Foundation hires out too, maybe other folk related organisations might hire as well?

Devon Squeezebox does hire (Pokerworks), also runs taster sessions at Dartmoor FF, Chippenham and probably elsewhere. Also tuition.

Malcolm

Howard Jones · « **Reply #23 on:** January 22, 2012, 11:55:53 AM »

I bought a concertina because I'd liked the sound of it on an LP. I got an anglo because that's what the shop had. I took it home, fiddled about with it, realised how it worked and by trial and error eventually got to grips with it. That then gave me head start when some years later I tried melodeon.

Call me stupid but I made no connection between either of these instruments and the mouth organ - beyond the basic similarity that they have free reeds and are suck-blow. Other than that they are completely different and require completely different skills. If I'd had to pass the test imposed by George's shopkeeper I'd never have taken up either instrument.

Steve_freereeder · « **Reply #24 on:** January 22, 2012, 12:19:10 PM »

Quote from: Howard Jones on January 22, 2012, 11:55:53 AM

I bought a concertina because I'd liked the sound of it on an LP. I got an anglo because that's what the shop had. I took it home, fiddled about with it, realised how it worked and by trial and error eventually got to grips with it. That then gave me head start when some years later I tried melodeon.

That's almost the same as my experience. When I was about 14 years old a school friend lent me an old 20-button two-row anglo concertina, one of those cheap German ones with accordion type reeds. It was pitched in F and C and leaked like anything, but I found my way around it and learnt to play a few simple tunes. When I eventually got round to trying a melodeon about ten years later, I found I could manage the push-pull idea quite readily. Never looked back....

oread_uk · « **Reply #25 on:** January 22, 2012, 12:31:10 PM »

Ugg. I hate playing the mouth organ and would never started the melodeon if that had been the way in.

Being in a morris side and spending a lot of time sitting around the tents in Sidmouth, being coached into playing 'Speed the plough', led to me buying one of the little toy melodeons, which I played for a week before borrowing a Morgane, and then found myself in the Music Room

And have not looked back.

My morris side have just bought a 'side' Pokerwork, which people can borrow to try it out. Many of our team members are students, and the idea of buying a box is a big outlay, so this gives people the opportunity to have a go, and hopefully from the side's perspective also means that we have an ever growing number of melodeon players to hand (this may not be seen as an advantage by some I guess

). I sometimes think it would be good for shops like The Music Room to have boxes that people can 'lease' for a reasonable amount while they decide if it's for them.. although I'm sure this would be much more complicated than it sounds.

L

Bob Ellis · « **Reply #26 on:** January 22, 2012, 12:41:34 PM »

If someone can already play a mouth organ/harmonica (are they the same thing?), they will have a head start in understanding the push-pull, push-pull, push-pull, pull-push scale. Furthermore, reference to a mouth organ helps to explain to non-players how a melodeon works. However, my experience suggests that it can be very damaging to advise someone to try a mouth organ first because "if you can play a mouth organ, you will be able to play a melodeon." I received that advice when I was in my mid-twenties. I bought a mouth organ, couldn't get on with it and therefore assumed that I would not be able to play a melodeon.

It wasn't until I was fifty that someone told me that there were many people who couldn't play a mouth organ who could play the melodeon very well. I bought a Hohner Erica and Mally's tutorial book and was soon making progress - but I had lost twenty-odd years due to that misguided advice about trying a mouth organ to discover whether I was likely to be able to play a melodeon.

My advice to people starting is to contact theirr local Morris side. Some sides, including ours, have one or two boxes that can be loaned out to new starters or else there is somebody among the musicians who has a spare box that they are willing to lend. Morris sides also often have people who are willing to give basic tuition to those who are new to the instrument.

If there isn't a Morris side locally or of if they are not helpful (not all are, unfortunately!), then I advise people to buy themselves a melodeon, a good introductory book/CD/DVD and teach themselves. I think it is better for them to buy a reasonably good instrument (if they can afford one) because they tend to be easier to play than the cheaper instruments (a generalisation, I know, but one that holds some truth). Another advantage of buying a better instrument is that they tend to hold their value better than cheaper instruments, so if the beginner doesn't get on with it and decides to sell, they are likely to be less out of pocket.

Prestidigitator · « **Reply #27 on:** January 22, 2012, 01:58:48 PM »

Quote from: Howard Jones on January 21, 2012, 07:03:57 PM

Quote from: malcolmbebb on January 21, 2012, 11:58:18 AM
I am really unsure about this mouth organ thing. You keep hearing it, it's used as the standard example of diatonic/bisonoric instruments but I really struggle to get on with one. ..

I know that does nothing to help with the original point, but I would certainly want a caveat in there somewhere.

Am I alone in this?

Malcolm

You're not. I've never been able to play the mouth organ, still can't. On the other hand I've been playing anglo for nearly 40 years and melodeon for nearly 30.

It may be correct to assume that if you can play gob-iron then you've a good chance of getting on with melodeon, but the reverse isn't true. To use it as a tool for assessing potential players is completely mistaken, imo.

I agree with Howard.

I remembered where in the house there might be a cheap Chinese mouth-organ that my son had as a boy and I've just been playing (?) it. It seems to me to be completely "chalk and cheese" to a melodeon and I doubt that it would have helped me, personally, in any way to play one before I started playing the melodeon. In those distant days, I also played the trombone, and two spittle-filled instruments would have been too much anyway.

In my view, it's probably better to find a way of getting hold of a box itself (even temporarily) rather than a mouth-organ substitute; perhaps using some of the stratagems suggested in this thread.

Mr Happy · « **Reply #28 on:** January 22, 2012, 03:07:48 PM »

..........& using a neck brace, you can play a duet with yourself!

Lyra · « **Reply #29 on:** January 22, 2012, 06:20:45 PM »

my issue isn't with the "push/pull" concept though - which is basically logical if slightly weird depending on you background, it's the making two hands work independently, that breathing in and out doesn't actually help the tune, and actually pushing and pulling at approximately the right moment - in short, the mechanics of it.
Having an actual go was my downfall/enlightenment that maybe in about 50 years I just might .....
Also, I don't actually like the mouthorgan so doomed from the start there, really.
It's also why my funky ipad app (which I love to bits, btw) although both fun and helpful, is no substitute for the real thing either.
So I can see where the mouthtruss might fit in, but it's no substitute for the real thing.

TomB · « **Reply #30 on:** January 22, 2012, 06:42:15 PM »

So how many push pull players will admit that when they were melodeon novices, they got out of breath having to synchronise their breathing with the movement of the bellows?

Rob2Hook · « **Reply #31 on:** January 22, 2012, 07:06:44 PM »

I can assure anyone wanting to get started that most of us with MAD are happy to loan an instrument for a trail period. It will endear you to the owner if you propose a fixed period for the loan - if you don't make the effort early on you won't get there, so its good for you too to have a deadline.

At the moment two of mine are with other people. The only thing is, if it gets damaged, even if not your fault you really should consult the owner and get it fixed at your expense - its just normal running costs - just as you should refill the tank before returning a borrowed car! I know of one person who complained he'd just had a bill for a retune of a box he hasn't seen for two years, but if he wants the keeper to play in his band... (you know who you are!)

Rob.

Neil_M · « **Reply #32 on:** January 22, 2012, 07:28:55 PM »

There's no way I'd want to go into a shop to try out an instrument I hadn't played before, I'm not thick skinned enough! I got my first Pokerwork second hand and when I met up with the seller didn't even know how to hold the thing. Following advice from helpfull melnetters I knew how to check if the bellows were ok and to check all the buttons worked.

Buying 2nd hand is the way in my book, get a feel for 2nd hand market values on ebay so you don't pay over the odds. If you don't get on with the instrument you only loose a few quid at worst, possibly making some money into the bargain!

As for learning on a mouthie - not for me, no good on the things

Howard Jones · « **Reply #33 on:** January 22, 2012, 10:04:27 PM »

So how many players of the mouth organ can't get on with melodeon? Obviously, they're not going to be reading this.

I suspect, with due respect to George who usually writes a great deal of sense, that the mouth organ-melodeon correlation, while having an apparent logic to it, just doesn't stand up in practice. And his shop-keeping friend could be doing himself out of a lot of business.

Ollie · « **Reply #34 on:** January 22, 2012, 11:04:19 PM »

It's a bit like someone wanting to learn to play the fiddle, and handing them a mandolin to try for a few weeks...

Alan C · « **Reply #35 on:** January 23, 2012, 08:15:46 AM »

I was thinking about buying one of those children's melodeons that are about £20 to see whether or not I could get on with it before spending more. Any thoughts on that?

xgx · « **Reply #36 on:** January 23, 2012, 10:17:56 AM »

That would be a complete waste of money.

malcolmbebb · « **Reply #37 on:** January 23, 2012, 10:21:23 AM »

Quote from: Alan C on January 23, 2012, 08:15:46 AM

I was thinking about buying one of those children's melodeons that are about £20 to see whether or not I could get on with it before spending more. Any thoughts on that?

It's a bit an adult buying a toddler's bike and trying to cycle to work on it. The principles are the same...

As long as you bear in mind that they have a very limited range, and the bellows are invariably stiff, creaky and very leaky so you have to pump like mad to keep air in it, and you'll keep running out of air...

But if you can get some fun out of it, you'll get a lot more out of a real one! So worth a try if you can't borrow a "grown-up" one.

george garside · « **Reply #38 on:** January 23, 2012, 10:31:22 AM »

whilst an axperienced player can get a reasonable tune out of the 'toy' melodeons it requires quite a bit of skill to compensate for the inherent shortcomings. My feeling is that ,as a generalisation, trying a toy box first is more likely to put people off than to encourage them onto a 'proper' box.

george

Hello · « **Reply #39 on:** January 23, 2012, 10:42:28 AM »

mmm

I often heard the "if you play a mouth orgain, you'll be fine with a melodon", but whilst they share the push-pull principle, for me that is where the similarities end. It's a bit like saying if you can drive a car, then you can fly a spitfire because they both have an internal combustion engine.

I also think that the toy melodeons are an excellent and inexpensive way to get an idea as to whether you'll get on with a proper melodeon. Indeed, this was the route I took into playing.

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Author Topic: "pre melodeon training" (Read 9379 times)