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Author Topic: What is folk music?  (Read 13512 times)

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birchy

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Re: What is folk music?
« Reply #80 on: February 21, 2012, 07:34:41 PM »

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With its emphasis on "the re-fashioning and re-creation of the music by the community", this, in my opinion, gets somewhere near the essence of what sets folk music apart from other kinds of music.

I like that bit in the definition.  It could apply to all sorts of situations where people make music for each other; for example "my old man" or "roll out the barrel" could be thought of as folk music for the East End of London, though we wouldn't really think of them as folk songs.  Similarly, it explains why Delila probably isn't folk, even if played on a melodeon, as no real "community" claims it.  If it were played at a session, people may enjoy it, but they'd think "oh, there's that Tom Jones song".
Similarly, when people in this country listen to Sengalese or Colombian music it's "World music", whereas to the locals, it's probably "folk". 

Just a few thoughts.  I'm no expert, but I like threads like this.
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Davy R

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Re: What is folk music?
« Reply #81 on: February 22, 2012, 10:45:43 AM »

Similarly, it explains why Delila probably isn't folk, even if played on a melodeon, as no real "community" claims it. 

Other than Stoke City football fans (for some reason it's "their" song).  ;D
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Re: What is folk music?
« Reply #82 on: February 22, 2012, 11:19:23 AM »

"roll out the barrel" could be thought of as folk music for the East End of London

seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Barrel_Polka
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Davy R

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Re: What is folk music?
« Reply #83 on: February 22, 2012, 11:25:48 AM »

"roll out the barrel" could be thought of as folk music for the East End of London

seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Barrel_Polka

Forever tainted in my memory for its association with a 1960s ad for Watney's Red Barrel (that dates me).  :D
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Owen Woods

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Re: What is folk music?
« Reply #84 on: February 27, 2012, 02:25:44 AM »

Some more thoughts, only mildly contradictory to what I wrote last time. Product of little sleep and littler sense :P

http://ukebert.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/guarding-the-tradition-part-2-what-is-not-folk-music/
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Davy R

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Re: What is folk music?
« Reply #85 on: February 27, 2012, 09:20:23 AM »

Quote: "What hope is there for folk music? Is it worth saving? Is there anything to save? Is the whole thing a waste of time?"

The early folk song and dance collectors assumed the material they noted down was in danger of being lost completely. They may or may not have been correct in that assumption. A deliberate attempt was made, via Sharp's introduction of folk song and dance into the school curriculum, to "keep the tradition alive". I've spoken to several people over the years, male and female, who have fond memories of singing folk songs or dancing Morris or what used to be known simply as "country dances" in their youth, regardless of whether or not they continued to be interested once leaving school.

The spread of firstly, almost universal literacy through the education system and secondly, the incredible access to material provided by the Internet, more-or-less guarantees the safety of folk song and dance for the future. Since the Second Revival of the 50s and 60s, traditional English song and dance has been deliberately fused with every other form you can think of from Early Music through jazz, world music, and hip-hop (vide the Daemon Barbers). As Martin Carthy (himself an agent for fusion music through his involvement with The Imagined Village) has said, the only thing that threatens traditional dance and song is not performing it.

So I think the answers to your four questions quoted above are: "Plenty", "Yes", "Yes" and "No".
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deltasalmon

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Re: What is folk music?
« Reply #87 on: September 19, 2012, 01:09:33 PM »

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For those of you that are interested, I have finally written the third part of this series

http://ukebert.wordpress.com/2012/09/18/guarding-the-tradition-part-3-what-might-folk-music-become/

The previous two posts are here:

http://ukebert.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/guarding-the-tradition-part-1-what-is-folk-music/
http://ukebert.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/guarding-the-tradition-part-2-what-is-not-folk-music/

I missed the first parts of this being a newbie to the forum. I just started reading it and am enjoying it very much.

my favorite part so far has been this:

Quote
it is not about the notes that you play, it is about how you play them, where you play them, who you play them with and most importantly, why you play them and what you think of them.
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Re: What is folk music?
« Reply #88 on: September 19, 2012, 04:14:46 PM »

For those of you that are interested, I have finally written the third part of this series (:)
http://ukebert.wordpress.com/2012/09/18/guarding-the-tradition-part-3-what-might-folk-music-become/
Excellent exposé and thinking.

Reminds me of artists who compose music that is structured and sounds like "old traditional music". To me that's one way of giving tradition a boost. Heck, traditional tunes were once new tunes too!

Canadian (late) composer and singer Stan Rogers once wrote a song called "Barrett's Privateers" in 1976 that sounds just like a 18th century sea shanty, to the point that most people still think it is one! The story in the song is fictional but uses authentic historical facts and places. This is one way of extending tradition.

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Chris Ryall

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Re: What is folk music?
« Reply #89 on: September 20, 2012, 08:39:16 AM »

I'm reminded of the traditional song Bring us a Barrel. Often thought  "trad, anon" as it is so close to the genre of old drinking songs, it was penned by the late Keith Marsden, a traditional song writing genius ::)  AFAIR at the time he was working in a bank in Bradford (which may or may not have stimulated any appetite for beer).

Stan Rogers was another one.  Having been personally knocked off bike by a careless motorist on 1st October to spend the next year off work - his  "Mary Ellen Carter" was a great comfort to me ... :|glug
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Re: What is folk music?
« Reply #90 on: September 20, 2012, 12:05:24 PM »

I never knew that Keith wrote Bring us a Barrel!  He was a great bloke and great singer, sorely missed.
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jb

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Re: What is folk music?
« Reply #91 on: September 20, 2012, 12:09:50 PM »

Canadian (late) composer and singer Stan Rogers once wrote a song called "Barrett's Privateers" in 1976 that sounds just like a 18th century sea shanty, to the point that most people still think it is one! The story in the song is fictional but uses authentic historical facts and places. This is one way of extending tradition.

I have to say I don't know this piece. But however much skill and knowledge went into its composition, as described here it sounds to me exactly what folk music isn't. I don't see pastiche as being a very interesting way of extending a tradition.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: What is folk music?
« Reply #92 on: September 20, 2012, 12:27:04 PM »

I do know the song - it's excellent and not in any way a pastiche. While it springs from the Novascottian seafaring tradition it's rhythmic structure is more complex and .. extends it.

A similar example might be Cyril Tawney's songs - especially "Chicken on a Raft"  :|glug

I never knew that Keith wrote Bring us a Barrel!

.. though you was a Yorkshireman like me ???  But point reinforced.  I first heard it from Derek Elliott in Darlington, and certainly though it was "trad" until I met Keith!
« Last Edit: September 20, 2012, 12:29:23 PM by Chris Ryall »
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Helena Handcart

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Re: What is folk music?
« Reply #93 on: September 20, 2012, 12:30:26 PM »

Canadian (late) composer and singer Stan Rogers once wrote a song called "Barrett's Privateers" in 1976 that sounds just like a 18th century sea shanty, to the point that most people still think it is one! The story in the song is fictional but uses authentic historical facts and places. This is one way of extending tradition.

I looked this one up literally only yesterday.  I was listening to the Blackbeard's Tea Party version and wondered if if was a 'real' one or not. 
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oggiesnr

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Re: What is folk music?
« Reply #94 on: September 20, 2012, 09:51:18 PM »

John Conolly always gets annoyed when Fiddler's Green is credited as Trad.

Steve
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Gary P Chapin

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Re: What is folk music?
« Reply #95 on: September 21, 2012, 01:27:44 AM »

I have to say I don't know this piece. But however much skill and knowledge went into its composition, as described here it sounds to me exactly what folk music isn't. I don't see pastiche as being a very interesting way of extending a tradition.
Listen to the piece.
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jb

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Re: What is folk music?
« Reply #96 on: September 21, 2012, 07:54:43 AM »

I have to say I don't know this piece. But however much skill and knowledge went into its composition, as described here it sounds to me exactly what folk music isn't. I don't see pastiche as being a very interesting way of extending a tradition.
Listen to the piece.
I was making a general point that it doesn't serve to extend, or even maintain, a tradition simply to create new pieces which replicate, and/or could be mistaken for, the old. Whether or not this piece is an instance of this, that is how it was described.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: What is folk music?
« Reply #97 on: September 21, 2012, 08:42:15 AM »

Sorry JB - the boundaries just aren't that rigid. 

There are always people writing songs "in the tradition" in the sense of borrowing from its style. Some will be stylistically "entirely within" - we have several examples above. Some will overlap it, but extend into other musical genres. eg a lot of John K's music - "Gravedigger" "Dan the Dustman" use the same modal scales as jazz.  "Vitamin Dance" edges on rock and roll!

I'm happy to see all of these as tradition extensions. Time will tell whether they have continue to have currency "amongst the folk" after their authors stop performing them.  Real music evolves.  A "tradition" that allows nothing new is a fossil.  :|glug
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