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Author Topic: Playing with singers who need an odd key  (Read 9507 times)

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SamWise

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Playing with singers who need an odd key
« on: October 03, 2008, 02:22:06 PM »

I'm not, as yet, as melodeonista. I do, however, have a best friend who is an out-and-proud folkie, and I'm helping her work on an EP. I need to assemble some musicians to add various parts - no problem, I have good contacts. Trouble is, for a folkie, she has odd taste in keys. She's used to playing on her own, guitar and vocals, and using the dreaded capo to find a key that works for her. This means that of the three songs we have so far, she's doing two in Bb, and one in Eb. Hmmmm.

I play whistle and flute, but clearly those aren't happening in those keys. My Dad is a folkie, and he plays concert flute, so I can draft him in there. I was also hoping to rope in melodeon for at least one song, but I'm not aware of any way of playing a button box in either of these keys. Is there something I don't know? At the moment, it's looking like I need to find a highly competent piano accordionist instead!
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Dazbo

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2008, 02:32:25 PM »

Whilst I don't know anyone to play a box in these keys there are quite a few Eb/Bb boxes around - mainly old hohners etc- It wouldn't surprise me if a D/G (or C/F, G/C, A/D etc) box player near you has one knocking about for "private parties" shall we say ;D
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TomB-R

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2008, 02:35:45 PM »

...and the inner row of a D/D# is also in Eb!  ;D
(And on one of those, a B/C player playing in "G" would be sounding in Bb!)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 02:38:12 PM by TomBR »
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SamWise

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2008, 02:41:20 PM »

Hmmm. I've been wanting to take up melodeon myself. Presumably Bb/Eb boxes would tend to be (relatively) cheap compared to a more popular D/G, so perhaps it would be ideal for me to try to snap one up and become her personal melodeonist? Where would one go looking for an inexpensive used Bb/Eb?
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george garside

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2008, 05:06:15 PM »

[quote 
 At the moment, it's looking like I need to find a highly competent piano accordionist instead!
[/quote]



or a BCCsharpist!

george
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Matthew B

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2008, 05:19:40 PM »

 . . . Or a club box player, a C/F club will get you Bb on both ends, and Eb on the right hand.  And then of course there's the Bb/Eb club.  Several people here play at least one of these tunings, and as I've yet to meet a melodeon player who turned down work I'm sure you could convince one of them to contribute to your project.
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Theo

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2008, 05:19:48 PM »

Hmmm. I've been wanting to take up melodeon myself. Presumably Bb/Eb boxes would tend to be (relatively) cheap compared to a more popular D/G, so perhaps it would be ideal for me to try to snap one up and become her personal melodeonist? Where would one go looking for an inexpensive used Bb/Eb?

There is one on ebay due to end soon.

It looks in good condition, but boxes of this age (from 1930s)  will always need a reed overhausl to get them playing properly.
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C age ing

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2008, 05:30:49 PM »

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Doug Anderson

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2008, 06:00:30 PM »

Bb and Eb are just a semitone above A and D, respectively, and both A and D are playable on a D/G melodeon. I'd see if the singer could deal with the slightly lower keys before spending money on instruments that are otherwise unlikely to see much use.
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george garside

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2008, 06:06:12 PM »

Bb and Eb are just a semitone above A and D, respectively, and both A and D are playable on a D/G melodeon. I'd see if the singer could deal with the slightly lower keys before spending money on instruments that are otherwise unlikely to see much use.

 It would be nice if someone could invent a sort of capo to be fitted to singers - that way you could move them up or down a bit to the  nearest recognisable key  ;)
george ;)
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Matthew B

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2008, 07:02:33 PM »

It would be nice if someone could invent a sort of capo to be fitted to singers - that way you could move them up or down a bit to the  nearest recognisable key  ;) george ;)

I'm wincing at the thought . . .
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2008, 08:02:29 PM »

Get a concertina (English or Duet) is my suggestion. I use it to lead singing with most weeks in my church (The Sally Army) and most of the hymns we sing are in Bb, F or Eb (and a few more in Ab). It's simply a fantastic instrument for all that kind of stuff. Which is the reason why the SA equipped most of its officers with them back in the early 1900s. Sadly I'm the only serving (i.e. not retired yet) officer I know of in the UK still using one - I guess you can say I'm hoping for a revival!

As to the issue of capos for singers...can't a special corset be made that would do the job?
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SamWise

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Doug Anderson

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2008, 09:35:11 PM »

It would be nice if someone could invent a sort of capo to be fitted to singers - that way you could move them up or down a bit to the  nearest recognisable key  ;)
My guitar player friend and I are usually able to sing with key-challenged instrumentalists by switching which of us sings lead and which sings harmony. He uses a capo as needed, and I play my English concertina if the piece is not in the G or C home keys of my melodeon.
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Falseknight

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2008, 01:20:11 AM »

If a singer is tied to  semi-tone of key, I'd  question whether they are worth recording anyway.

There should be enough latitude.

Best way to manage this, incidentally, is not to TELL the singer you've moved the key.  Nine times out of ten they won't notice.  (Alternatively tune the guitar a semitone sharp or flat - same game!)
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SamWise

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2008, 07:31:01 AM »

Oh, she's worth recording, believe me. She just needs confidence and experience. With the Bb song, for example, I could probably take it UP to C without too much trouble, but the bottom note in Bb is near the bottom of her range. I think she can hit it in A though.
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SamWise

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2008, 08:07:16 AM »

Actually, I've been thinking about this some more, and I still think buying a Bb/Eb box is not a bad idea. I've wanted a melodeon for ages, evidence suggests I'd get a decent one a good bit cheaper than a D/G, and the more I think about the "It'll never get played" comment, the more it's a fallacy. The singer I'm most likely to play with transposes most tunes into these keys, so it'll see use there. I'm not really a folkie - I like folk music, but I find sessions bizarre - you need to know 8 million different tunes just to get along, and whilst I like folk, I'm nowhere near committed enough to it to invest the sort of time involved - I have too much other music to play. I'm interested in learning songs to perform, and for my purposes, why not Bb/Eb?
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Skipy

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2008, 10:22:10 AM »

I like folk music, but I find sessions bizarre - you need to know 8 million different tunes just to get along,

I had to smile when I read this and you're spot on of course, although I feel 8 million may be slight exaggeration, one way or the other!  ;)

However, I love my local one, it's a great place be, a great place to meet new musicians and a great way to learn lots and lots and lots and lots of new tunes.

Skipy
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C age ing

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2008, 10:49:11 AM »

Yeah, I have Generation whistles in all sorts of keys, but they're not really playable. I've got nice whistles in D and G and C, and a really nice handmade wooden keyless flute, also in D. My Dad is a flute fanatic, and will probably have something in Bb - at the last count he had around 40 flutes), but it's a shame not to play my nice instruments.
Sam,
Have you tried the old trick of taking the head off of Gennies, filling the underside up to the window with Blutak and cleaning off the moulding flash? Makes a difference and you will only need to treat the Bb and then use one of the on line fingering charts to find out the cross fingering for the Ab for the Eb tunes. Remember that some of those excellent professional Irish whistle players play bog standard whistles rather than Morpanes or similar..
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SamWise

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Re: Playing with singers who need an odd key
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2008, 11:01:56 AM »

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