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[Theo]

Obviously there are issues, tuning being the main one since it it is likely to cost more than a box is worth to tune it fully.

My original training is as a metallurgist and my day-job is in aerospace quality assurance, so the question that comes instantly to mind is "What can be done to develop cheap, stable, mass produced reeds?"  That would answer most issues, since free reeds are one of the few instruments (electric guitars included) where the box does not matter much.  Am I missing something obvious here?

I think the mass-production of cheap stable reeds was cracked long ago by both the Italians and the Germans.  Stability (of tuning) is not generally an issue, most boxes go for a number of years before needing a retune.  Getting a mass produced box accurately tuned is still a problem though.  I would go so far as to say that the vast majority of new instruments can have the tuning and responsiveness of the reeds improved.   Its just the same as with a stringed instrument where you expect to have a new instrument carefully set up before it will give its best. Free reed instruments are the same, the only exceptions being a hand made instrument built to your personal specification, and none of the popular makes come into that category.

[Falseknight]

So why do box players turn their noses up at cheaper Far Eastern production in a way that frets players do not?

I notice that Music Room are bringing in a Chinese instrument at a similar price point to a Morgane.  Dos this represent the true value of the instrument, is it an attempt to maintain the  value (and perceived desirability) of Italian instruments or am I being excessively cynical.

Obviously, you can't judge until you've tried, but my instinct would be to go for the German built instrument every time.

[Theo]

So why do box players turn their noses up at cheaper Far Eastern production in a way that frets players do not?

In my experience cheap Chinese boxes have earned themselves a reputation for being not very nice to play.  I don't know anything about frets,  but I can make a guess that a typical fretted stringed instrument is a much simpler thing to build,  the skills required are pretty much limited to woodwork, and the number of component parts is much smaller, so for a similar amount of money one can build a better instrument.

[Pushpull]

So why do box players turn their noses up at cheaper Far Eastern production in a way that frets players do not?

I notice that Music Room are bringing in a Chinese instrument at a similar price point to a Morgane.  Dos this represent the true value of the instrument, is it an attempt to maintain the  value (and perceived desirability) of Italian instruments or am I being excessively cynical.

Obviously, you can't judge until you've tried, but my instinct would be to go for the German built instrument every time.

I'm slightly confused by the above. You ask "So why do box players turn their noses up at cheaper Far Eastern production in a way that frets players do not?" whilst stating "my instinct would be to go for the German built instrument every time".

You're wrong about morris musicians all playing Costalottis anyway. There are loads playing Pokerworks. Personally I prefer my Castagnari to my Pokerwork, it's much nicer to play. But I concede the Pokerwork (Chinese built now of course) sounds wonderful.

As for "really cheap" Chinese boxes, I'm sure they are rubbish.

[Falseknight]

So why do box players turn their noses up at cheaper Far Eastern production in a way that frets players do not?...

I'm slightly confused by the above. You ask "So why do box players turn their noses up at cheaper Far Eastern production in a way that frets players do not?" whilst stating "my instinct would be to go for the German built instrument every time".

Note that I was talking about boxes brought in at similar price points.  I would expect to find Far Eastern production discounted compared to European production and would not at this time anticipate quality, particularly consistency of quality control to be as good.This is based on observing a wide variety of products outsourced to China and the Far East, not particularly musical instruments.

You're wrong about morris musicians all playing Costalottis anyway. There are loads playing Pokerworks. Personally I prefer my Castagnari to my Pokerwork, it's much nicer to play. But I concede the Pokerwork (Chinese built now of course) sounds wonderful.

That isn't actually what I said.  My taste for the sound of melodeons is more for Hohners and Sopranis than for the Castagnaris and similar.  This is pure, personal taste.  what does surprise me, and what I was commenting on I suppose, was the number of boutique instruments in the hands of people that did not seem to be getting a lot out of them.  I suppose this could reflect on the disposable income of the average morris person, but I don't want to go there  :)

There didn't used to be much of a choice when I started, it was pretty much all Hohner anyway.

I am sad to see any independent music retailer shut up shop, it means that there is progressively less chance of not being told what we want to buy.  I worry that there is not a sustainable route for people to get into free reeds compared even to orchestral music, certainly to guitar.

[Pushpull]

Note that I was talking about boxes brought in at similar price points.  I would expect to find Far Eastern production discounted compared to European production and would not at this time anticipate quality, particularly consistency of quality control to be as good.This is based on observing a wide variety of products outsourced to China and the Far East, not particularly musical instruments.

Why discounted? They are cheaper anyway. As for quality control, that's in the hands of the specifier. The Chinese have been producing some very high quality goods for years (take a look at tents and outdoor clothing - most manufacturers get them sewn up in China and standards are extremely good).

what does surprise me, and what I was commenting on I suppose, was the number of boutique instruments in the hands of people that did not seem to be getting a lot out of them.  I suppose this could reflect on the disposable income of the average morris person, but I don't want to go there  :)

Well I can't deny my instrument is deserving of someone far better than I am. As for disposable income, it is indeed a pretty pass when a morris musician can afford an expensive box. When I were a lad.......

I am sad to see any independent music retailer shut up shop, it means that there is progressively less chance of not being told what we want to buy.  I worry that there is not a sustainable route for people to get into free reeds compared even to orchestral music, certainly to guitar.

I agree it's sad to see shops go, but I'm sure you can't blame this on the box market. Music Room sell more than melodeons. And if you think free reeds are hard to find, try looking for a good oboe north of London.

[Falseknight]

I suppose I could have put some of that a little better.  Being involved in the aerospace industry, I have seen some of the outsourcing and offset issues first hand.  They are not pretty I can assure you.  It is also only 12 months since the lead paint fiasco with Mattel among others.  It does not inspire confidence.  It also depends how much expertise the outsourcing companies have put into the design and control of the manufacturing process.  Hohner, I would presume have put a lot of both into setting up a state of art facility, I suspect the plants making Erica knock offs have not, otherwise there would not be the horror stories.

With regard to discounting, I meant that I would expect the price compared to a European model of similar specification to be cheaper.  Regarding the Morgane, and the Music Room box, I am not convinced that the Chinese have expertise at this level, or that Music Room have the resource to manage a Chinese contractor.  I could be wrong, they could be the steal of the century, but I'd need to be really convinced - especially since second hand V Sopranis come in cheaper.