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Author Topic: Keeping your eye on the job....  (Read 4547 times)

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Ebor_fiddler

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Re: Keeping your eye on the job....
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2012, 12:17:49 PM »

You can't shout at CDs as you can at real musicians!  :Ph
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Re: Keeping your eye on the job....
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2012, 01:21:40 PM »

You can shout at cd's but they don't respond!

I find, when playing for dancers I keep my eyes open and watch what they're doing. But in a session I frequently close my eyes, especially if I'm not too sure of playing via buttons instead of strings. Perhaps by cutting out the visuals I'm reverting to single tasking instead of multitasking!

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Re: Keeping your eye on the job....
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2012, 02:55:27 PM »

is that the melodeon players equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears, Carthyesque style?
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pikey

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Re: Keeping your eye on the job....
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2012, 02:58:44 PM »

a good musician always watches the dancers, whether it's morris, sword, playford, english country, american square, etc etc.

You need to check that the dancers are ok with the tempo tha you selected, and, if required, subtly change it.

For barn dances, without watching you can't tell if the dancers are tired/bored//entranced/.   I hate the '5 times through' EFDSS embarassment - you should play through as many times as the dancers like . Hence the need to watch both their feet and their faces.  we once did 'Buttered Peas' for 40 minutes, because the dancers were lapping it up - and when we finished it, they called for an encore!!

you're right, of course - I was the caller and the second melodeon player!

I would have thought that is the callers job. But watching the dancers is part of being the lead musician and being a dancer themselves goes a long way to making sure the dance is progressing properly, an extra A might be needed to get inexperienced dancers through to the end of the set, tempo might need to be adjusted, a lift inserted into the tune if they are flagging or a complete civilised stop if the caller needs an early restart due to dancers misunderstanding the call.
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Re: Keeping your eye on the job....
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2012, 03:05:07 PM »

a good musician always watches the dancers, whether it's morris, sword, playford, english country, american square, etc etc.

You need to check that the dancers are ok with the tempo tha you selected, and, if required, subtly change it.


the problem with watching the best dancer is that you are looking at the one who can cope with tempos that arent quite right, and the one that will be ale to keep dancing when everyone else is struggling! for morris, i focus on number 1 - he is leading the dance. For barn dances, I focus on one of the middle ability dancers, but keep an eye on every set. The aim is to get as may sets comfy as possible, noting that there is nearly always one that will strugle a bit, no matter what you do!

Btw - that's why callers should also be capable musicians, and why they should play with the band. It's also why the band lead should be a capable dancer! Qv Bob Cann.   

I would amend this to say that a good musician watches a dancer. Dancers tend to dance at slightly different tempos: some are spot on the beat; some are slightly before it; others slightly behind it. I find that if I transfer my attention between dancers then the tempo changes slightly, so I choose one good dancer (often, but not always, the person dancing in the number 1 position) and follow that person throughout. My only exceptions to that are in corner dances, when I transfer my attention to the better of the two dancers for each corner, and double jigs, where I adjust the tempo to the needs of each dancer.

Unfortunately, we have other musicians who take little or no notice of the dancers or of the musicians with whom they are playing. Jenny and I can often be seen bobbing up and down vigorously or heard muttering 'steady!' when these musicians go racing ahead in a word of their own.  ::)

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IanD

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Re: Keeping your eye on the job....
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2012, 03:10:56 PM »

a good musician always watches the dancers, whether it's morris, sword, playford, english country, american square, etc etc.

You need to check that the dancers are ok with the tempo tha you selected, and, if required, subtly change it.

I would amend this to say that a good musician watches a dancer. Dancers tend to dance at slightly different tempos: some are spot on the beat; some are slightly before it; others slightly behind it. I find that if I transfer my attention between dancers then the tempo changes slightly, so I choose one good dancer (often, but not always, the person dancing in the number 1 position) and follow that person throughout. My only exceptions to that are in corner dances, when I transfer my attention to the better of the two dancers for each corner, and double jigs, where I adjust the tempo to the needs of each dancer.

Unfortunately, we have other musicians who take little or no notice of the dancers or of the musicians with whom they are playing. Jenny and I can often be seen bobbing up and down vigorously or heard muttering 'steady!' when these musicians go racing ahead in a word of their own.  ::)

I tend to watch the set as a whole and play what seems right for the set overall. If you have a good dancer ("the best" one?) who is more energetic (or less tired) than the rest and follow them then the others in the set can't keep up (usually because the music is too slow for them) and the dance as a whole looks less good. It's better overall to play what works bet for everyone -- the "best" dancer may think the music is a bit too fast, the "worst" one the opposite, but on the whole the result will look better than playing to one extreme.

Of course you should always play to encourage the dancers to put as much into the dance as possible...
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Ollie

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Re: Keeping your eye on the job....
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2012, 03:33:11 PM »

is that the melodeon players equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears, Carthyesque style?

But it's not finger-in-the-ear... you actually form a cup with your hand around your ear, and it's a very effective way of hearing yourself.
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Re: Keeping your eye on the job....
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2012, 03:42:23 PM »

Perhaps I should have defined what I mean by a 'good' dancer and I should have made it explicit that I was referring to Morris only. The dancer I choose to follow is not necessarily the fittest dancer or the best technically, but an experienced dancer who understands the tempo at which the dance should be performed and can be performed by the less experienced dancers in the set. While this is usually number 1, it isn't always! We have somebody in our side who likes to dance at number 1 who is always slightly ahead of the beat. If I followed him, the music would speed up as the dance progressed, so I choose another experienced dancer who dances on the beat and I follow that person.

Of course, one has to be aware of the weaker dancers in the set, but it would be folly to set the tempo to suit the weakest dancer.

Another relevant factor is the tradition. For instance, I always pitch the tempo for Ascot-under-Wychwood on the slow side, otherwise some of the dancers would get hopelessly out of time when performing the cross-backs.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 03:44:04 PM by Bob Ellis »
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Keeping your eye on the job....
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2012, 04:14:02 PM »

is that the melodeon players equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears, Carthyesque style?

But it's not finger-in-the-ear... you actually form a cup with your hand around your ear, and it's a very effective way of hearing yourself.

Yes, it always amuses me that the great unwashed poke fun at folk singers for doing that, but nobody ever mentions it when opera singers, jazz singers, and even pop and rock singers do it - usually when recording. It is indeed an extraordinarily effective way of blocking out a good deal of ambient noise and actually hearing what you're singing.

Graham
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Re: Keeping your eye on the job....
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2012, 04:18:02 PM »

Yes, but you really need the knitted jumper to get the full effect. And not just any old beard will do...
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Re: Keeping your eye on the job....
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2012, 04:46:52 PM »

Yes, but you really need the knitted jumper to get the full effect. And not just any old beard will do...

Just checking - it IS 2012, isn't it? ;D ??? :|glug
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Re: Keeping your eye on the job....
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2012, 05:07:17 PM »

Yes, but you really need the knitted jumper to get the full effect. And not just any old beard will do...

Just checking - it IS 2012, isn't it? ;D ??? :|glug

Ssshhh - there's a lot of people don't know that. That bloke who organises the Ship Band, apparently, an MP or two, ....
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Re: Keeping your eye on the job....
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2012, 05:10:27 PM »

Yes, but you really need the knitted jumper to get the full effect. And not just any old beard will do...

Just checking - it IS 2012, isn't it? ;D ??? :|glug

Ssshhh - there's a lot of people don't know that. That bloke who organises the Ship Band, apparently, an MP or two, ....

 ;D
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Marje

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Re: Keeping your eye on the job....
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2012, 05:36:16 PM »

is that the melodeon players equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears, Carthyesque style?

But it's not finger-in-the-ear... you actually form a cup with your hand around your ear, and it's a very effective way of hearing yourself.

Yes, it always amuses me that the great unwashed poke fun at folk singers for doing that, but nobody ever mentions it when opera singers, jazz singers, and even pop and rock singers do it - usually when recording. It is indeed an extraordinarily effective way of blocking out a good deal of ambient noise and actually hearing what you're singing.

Graham

It is, but if you're performing live, it has the unfortunate effect of making your singing less audible (and your mouth less visible) to anyone sitting towards the side on which the elbow is raised - this can apply to people who are attempting to sing or play along with you, or to audience members.

It is (perhaps fortunately) impossible to do when playing melodeon. I do admit to the trick of closing eyes when learning a tune that someone else is playing or singing, but I generally open them when I'm ready to start joining in. At a session, I think I use visual clues to help me keep in time with whoever's leading the tune. Someone once asked me if the reason I was attentively watching a fiddler playing was to follow the melody, but it was only to keep the rhythm.
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