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Author Topic: Bad practice for a beginner?  (Read 4393 times)

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Helena Handcart

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Bad practice for a beginner?
« on: June 21, 2012, 08:56:16 PM »

I've been playing D/G for around 2-3 months now and I have a couple of tutor books which have been really useful but I keep hearing tunes I want to play, mainly stuff I've known for years that just sort of wanders across my ipod.  Next thing I know I'm messing around with these tunes instead of following the books. 

I'm pretty sure this is a good idea in some respects, it is waking up the tiny part of my brain that took in any musical theory as a child and also making me think a little more about the way tunes are constructed and about the notes I am playing, particularly when crossing the rows is involved.  Part of me still feels a bit like a naughty rebellious fourth former though and I wonder if I would just be better following my tutor books rather than going 'off-piste' like this?

What do others think, is this a good idea or should I get a better theoretical grounding before I start tinkering too much?
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Anahata

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2012, 09:18:27 PM »

Easy: do a bit of both and don't feel guilty.
I didn't have any melodeon tutors, but I did have the advantage of a prior musical education.
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malcolmbebb

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2012, 09:52:01 PM »

What he said.

I guess you're learning for fun: so have some.

There is a load of stuff I should be doing, until I get around to it I'm doing pretty much the same as you.
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Ray

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2012, 10:38:44 PM »

Follow your books, but also tinker with things you want to play, it'll keep the melodeon being interesting and fun
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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2012, 12:08:44 AM »

Eventually the tunes you WANT to play will become evident.

I picked up the melodeon some years ago and, learning to bash out a tune was not my goal. I wanted people to dance. And to the melodeon they do :)

The people at the time were mostly children, still the best purveyors of truth, and they danced, sang, put on plays... etc

I had a goal when I decided to focus on the melodeon... will the kids "join in"

I still have the same focus. The Berlin Ceilidh Band has had to move to a larger hall.
Playing an instrument, whilst it can be an end in itself, is social.

Experiment, find a social reason to play (sessions, with a mate, whatever..)

An intuitive instrument with a heart full of dance.. the melodeon... enjoy :)
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2012, 05:25:47 AM »

All of the above.  Like Anahata, I have never used a tutor book (never even opened one, to be honest), and I learned the box entirely by playing tunes.  But then, I already played an (entirely unrelated) instrument and had had an excellent music teacher at school.

Graham
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arty

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2012, 08:32:22 AM »

I am a complete beginner, in that I bought my very first melodeon on the 1st May. I played the oboe for nearly 20 years, then the guitar, both with formal teaching and many, many books. I also tinkered about on a chromatic button accordion for a couple of years.

One of the things I have learnt already about the melodeon, is that it is great fun and 'playing about on it' without a book is very rewarding. All you need is a tune, whether it be in your head or on paper and you'll get there just by putting in the time. 

It seems to me, that there is only one bad practice for a beginner and that is to leave the instrument in the box and not play it at all. Music comes from the heart and not from a book. The mechanics of the melodeon are very simple really and, for me, the charm of it is that you can forget about technique and just enjoy the process of making music.

I know from my own experience, that too many books and too much formal teaching means practicing can become a bit of a chore. I am keeping my melodeon just for fun - no rules, just fun. And guess what....I am loving my music more than I have ever done before!
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Marje

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2012, 09:37:16 AM »

All of the above makes sense to me too - one great joy about a melodeon is that you can take it straight home form the shop and start to play something that sounds like a tune. It's always in tune, and it even offers you selected basses that are very likely to fit with the melody.You will learn more from just noodling about than you will from a book. You don't need to know any theory, or even the letter-names of the notes you play, although there will be times when it's helpful to be able to work them out.

BUT but but ... there are always, with any instrument including the voice, bad habits that are easy to drift into and difficult to "unlearn". With melodeon, I'd want to mention (as you have implied) the row-crossing thing. It's perfectly possible to treat a D/G like two separate instruments in different keys with their own dedicated basses, and play up and down the rows all the time. But you'll be missing out on some of the wider possibilities of the instrument if you don't explore the row-crossing options.

And in connection with this: the two sets of basses don't do exactly the same thing (you may have worked this out but some people don't seem to notice for months, or ever). When playing in G, you can slide across to the C bass when you need it, but if you try the same manoeuvre when playing in D, you get a Bm chord, which often sounds a bit weird. To get the same chord sequence when playing in D, you need to move over to play the G bass, which is on a push. This will often mean you can't get the melody (right-hand) note you want without crossing briefly to find it the G row , and that's what you need to learn to do. Otherwise you will find you have to unlearn some of your tunes in D, and re-learn with the right fingering, which is tedious and annoying.

That's one reason that I'd recommend playing with both hands right from the start. Another is that it's much more fun to be able to make a whole melody-and-bass tune all by yourself (not many instruments can do that), even with crazy mistakes and stumblings. It doesn't matter whether you play Winster Gallop or Engelbert Humperdink's latest ballad (I'm not suggesting for a moment that this is on your iPod!), it's all good practice. Just remember what I said about playing in D, and using both hands.

Apart from that, other refinements can be learned as you go, whenever you feel ready, and most of them won't require any re-learning, they'll simply build on what you've already learned.
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Marje

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2012, 10:01:45 AM »

To get the same chord sequence when playing in D, you need to move over to play the G bass, which is on a push. This will often mean you can't get the melody (right-hand) note you want without crossing briefly to find it the G row , and that's what you need to learn to do. Otherwise you will find you have to unlearn some of your tunes in D, and re-learn with the right fingering, which is tedious and annoying.

JK takes this a stage further and recommends playing as much as possible of D tunes on the G row, then you have the D and G basses available on the same buttons, though you still have to shift LH buttons to play the push D bass in places.  Tunes in D can be played entirely on the G row, with the exception of only the seventh (C#) note.   A bonus to learning this method is that you can play the same fingering pattern on the D row and you have A major for no extra effort.  Actually you do have to deal with the G# which may be missing or on a distant button, but can often be missed out.
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Anahata

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2012, 10:11:28 AM »

JK takes this a stage further and recommends playing as much as possible of D tunes on the G row, then you have the D and G basses available on the same buttons, though you still have to shift LH buttons to play the push D bass in places.  Tunes in D can be played entirely on the G row, with the exception of only the seventh (C#) note.   A bonus to learning this method is that you can play the same fingering pattern on the D row and you have A major for no extra effort.

JK is used to this because he also plays B/C/C# button accordion, and the same fingering pattern is what you have to do on that to play in G.

Another advantage of using the G row for parts of D tunes is that it sometimes makes air management easier.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2012, 11:01:49 AM »

I tend to put in practise, whether from a tutor or learning a tune and concentrate on that for a while.
Then I try and relax by playing something I know.....
Sometimes the most interesting and beneficial time is spent just when I'm about to stop. I twiddle absentmindedly, just wondering what to do...... and sometimes a sequence of notes somehow 'fall' to the fingers..... and I follow that for a while and realise I might have the basis of a tune I've heard floating around.
Or maybe discover by twiddling, a new way to play a sequence of notes, or a new way to think about the keyboard.
It is all learning, you are getting to know your instrument and you never know what you'll find out.

I'm a great believer in allowing your mind to wander.
Mine does it all the time  ;D
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Strigulino

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2012, 12:48:36 PM »

I think it is most important to practice, regardless of what you practice.  If you're not cut out to learn from books then you aren't.  If you really don't like polkas but love a hornpipe, then play hornpipes.  If you take a bit of a break from books to noodle pop tunes, you're still learning intervals between notes, and still having FUN.

You know how you learn better than anyone.  I find myself hammering tunes I really want to learn, looking things up in books to see what experienced heads have said on the matter, watching videos of other people playing the tune.

The world of computer games is a good analogy.  Imagine this is the Melodeon MMORPG (massively multiplayer online roleplaying game).  You know the sort of thing, smite 50 of those, collect ten of them, get the boss, steal the treasure, hand in the quest.  So what does that have to do with learning a musical instrument? 

Take your average gamer.  They are only going to invest hours and hours of gameplay if they WANT to.  They want to get that sweet bit of kit, kill that boss, get that title, finish that quest arc or some such.  The good games give people a variety of things to do, so they don't get bored and keep coming back, to finally achieve getting the top level or finishing some flashpoint or other, or being promoted to officer in their guild.  The player knows whether their carrot is getting the best armour, or finishing the story, or duelling other players, or a combination of those. 

So to take that to music.  You doubtless have some tunes you would love to play, or someone you would like to sound like.  You choose your race and class (melodeon) and you start at level 1.  You are probably required to deal with a rat problem in the tavern basement, or to collect some strange cactus fruit or other.  Trainers give you quests and missions, and over time you improve your skills.  More missions, more quests.  You group up with friends and learn together.  Every little achievement, every little win, every note you get right, every tune you learn is another mob defeated, another drop collected, another quest turned in. Another tiny achievement that brings you closer to the endgame goal you have in mind.  And I speak from experience, this can take hours of grinding.

But yes, it's a game.  It's a game where you start at a low level and progress through many small achievements.  As long as you keep your eyes on the prize, you will get to the point where you too are swaggering around Carrick Station in your Rakata gear, in your rare drop speeder, brandishing your Light IV lightsaber and showing off to people who have only just stepped off the shuttle from Tython.

The point is - keep it fun.  Make it a game.  Give yourself long, medium and short term goals.  Revel in your successes and learn from your mistakes. 

Help you I can, yes, mmm?

(Gamer readers will probably be able to work out some of the games I have put a lot of effort into over the past decades).  :D
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Marje

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2012, 12:50:17 PM »

Playing along with others who are better than you are is often helpful, although there may be social impediments to doing this. I find if I'm playing along following a really good player, I suddenly think, "Hang about, isn't this a tune I can't play?" and yet somehow I'm managing most of it because someone more completent than I am is keeping it going and showing me how it all fits together, whereas on my own I'd have stumbled to a halt.
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Helena Handcart

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2012, 12:54:03 PM »

Thanks everyone for your input, I am learning pretty much on my own here as I don't know anyone who plays so any assistance/support is valued.  I have the 'Maggie's Melodeon' tutor book which I am finding to be excellent, one of the things I like about the book is that it gets you playing with both hands right from the start.

I am a programmer so my hands are used to doing different things with minimal input from the brain department which I think has been a significant help with my learning so far - playing the melodeon is basically sideways typing on a wooden handbag after all (no offence intended to serious musicians, just my way of looking at it).

Marje has  alluded above to one of the pitfalls of my approach in that the bass side of things tends to get a bit neglected.  The book has some excellent advice on playing basses so I really should try to stick to it a bit more.  In trying to run before I can walk I can run into problems by getting the melody sorted then realising I have NO IDEA what the bass end should be doing.  I guess I need to find a balanced approach between the two.

Overall this whole melodeon thing is going rather well, although having a patient and slightly deaf husband and a conservatory WELL AWAY from the main part of the house does help a lot.

So thanks all for your input here, it is much appreciated. I will continue to have fun with my lovely melodeon but reserve the right to ask silly beginner questions from time to time :-)
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Stiamh

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2012, 01:33:45 PM »

I am a programmer so my hands are used to doing different things with minimal input from the brain department...

Thank you. I am starting to understand the source of my dissatisfaction with certain computer programmes.  :D

Seriously though I'm sure you'll find your own balance. Some of us have very strange and apparently disorganized ways of learning. As others have probably said, if you don't enjoy the process, you won't stick with it, so make sure you tackle the instrument in a way that suits you.

ladydetemps

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2012, 01:51:36 PM »

I started out trying to be structured in my learning...but being the butterfly I am kept going off at tangents. Playing with other people even if its a kind melnetter trying to teach me by phone was a big help. Whereabouts are you? Could you coincide a holiday with a melodeon workshop? That's what I do.

Graham Spencer

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2012, 02:06:26 PM »

sideways typing on a wooden handbag


I love that!  Can I use it as a CD title ;D?

Graham
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2012, 02:08:37 PM »

Nell, please *do* ask silly questions...... then it make me feel like I've an ally!
The really nice thing about this place is that no one has ignored my past very basic or silly questions, they simply answer, knowing full well that they were once learning to.


'sideways typing on a wooden handbag' - missed that one.
Yes classic comment!
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2012, 02:20:02 PM »

I started out trying to be structured in my learning...but being the butterfly I am kept going off at tangents. Playing with other people even if its a kind melnetter trying to teach me by phone was a big help. Whereabouts are you? Could you coincide a holiday with a melodeon workshop? That's what I do.
I wonder how feasible it would be to organise a day/weekend for Melnetters, or perhaps even specifically for newbies?  School of Box.   8)
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Bad practice for a beginner?
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2012, 03:48:09 PM »

A day of melnetting has been mentioned before, and there's interest, the main sticking points are where and who to organise it?
We are spread all over the UK and across various ponds and channels, so it's difficult to get a central point and then someone willing to take on the task.
Q


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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!
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