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Author Topic: Castagnari is losing its quality ???  (Read 22371 times)

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gioui

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Castagnari is losing its quality ???
« on: July 08, 2012, 03:16:15 PM »

I'M SORRY TO NOTE THAT SOME OF THE TIME NOT THE SAME QUALITY OF FIRST
FROM 5 YEARS I HAVE NOTICED THAT melodeon Castagnari ARE LOSING THE QUALITY THAT HAS ALWAYS characterized them.
IN THE MARKET TODAY THERE ARE OTHER BRANDS,  MAYBE NOT KNOWN than Castagnari ,BUT WITH VERY LOWEST PRICES
they have become the same level or higher than castagnari but mostly available in customizations
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 09:56:23 AM by jijjooma21 »
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Steve C.

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2012, 04:29:13 PM »

gii: Who do you feel is offering same quality or higher (at lower price point?)
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2012, 07:04:32 PM »

I'll be seeing Sandro and Massimo on Friday in their shop at Chateau d'Ars. 
They usually have a 50 or so accordeons on offer, and I've owned 3 myself. 

Will report back...
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Mike Carney

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2012, 09:31:52 PM »

I'M SORRY TO NOTE THAT SOME OF THE TIME NOT THE SAME QUALITY OF FIRST
FROM 5 YEARS I HAVE NOTICED THAT melodeon Castagnari ARE LOSING THE QUALITY THAT HAS ALWAYS characterized them.
IN THE MARKET TODAY THERE ARE OTHER BRANDS,  MAYBE NOT KNOWN than Castagnari ,BUT WITH VERY LOWEST PRICES
they have become the same level or higher than castagnari but mostly available in customizations
Slightly global comment if I may say.  I don't own one yet but it would help the discussion to be a little more specific...ie the flaws and the comparisons.
Mike (:)
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Graham W

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2012, 07:52:44 AM »

 Having just been in the fortunate position of picking up a new Castagnari from La Maison de l'Accordeon and spent quite some time in the shop being both entertained and enthralled, that statement is a million miles from my experience.

I have a 1988 'window' model and a 1999 to compare, and the new one is better in action, finish quality and (though it's subjective) sound that either of them. I love it ;D

tell us more . . . . . .
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Adam-T

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2012, 08:05:55 AM »

Maybe he bought one of those friday night Morys and already owns a window box - whatever, it`s a hell of a statement to make unless he`s played numerous models from both periods within a reasonable time span
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Theo

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2012, 08:29:57 AM »

My experience is the reverse. I bought a new Mory in 2000, it was very disappointing and I sold it after struggling with it for a couple of years.  I know of two other people who bought at the same time and had the same experience. The new Castagnaris that I've tried over the last few years have been very good indeed, but the window model Mory that I was fortunate to find recently is in a different league, it is a dream to play.   New boxes do need time to develop, so only time will tell if the good boxes that are coming out now will turn out as good as the best of the old ones.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 09:01:56 AM by Theo »
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2012, 09:41:53 AM »

My experience is the reverse

Concur on the 'dip' - I sold my 1991 Mori about then - it was a lovely box. I (and others) felt  that the late 90's kit on offer 'at the shop' had ... lost something. I actually asked Sandro if they now contracted anything out -this was strongly denied!  They were however subject to the 'pressures of success' at the time. Let's face it - Mr Cutting was the reason we all bought Mori's! 

I got no sense of quality issue in the better models I tried last summer - but will look again at the end of the week.  Anyone else going? 
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gioui

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2012, 10:12:09 AM »

I had my Handry a couple of months ago and my feeling is that everything has deteriorated ....somewhat since the tipo a mano blades sold at the price of the a mano  and also the mechanics, In my opinion  Castagnari is being converted to industrial production abandoning the craft production. Today the market offers better produced by real craftsman fully customizabled instruments at lower prices....here is an example
http://www.gallianoeploner.it/
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melodeon

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2012, 03:43:35 PM »

Like Theo,  I had a Mory from around 1996.. worst of my 9 (or so) Castagnaris .  The Mory was a terrible accordeon. Completely screwed up bass mechanisms ( which I redesigned and rebuilt) bad tuning.. poor reed fitting, sloppy assembly.. poor sound.
I finally offed it after dumping too much time and money into it.

Since then I have owned 2 Lilly's, another (2000) Handry, a Tommy, 2 melodeons, a newer (2010) Handry (excellent) ,a Cortina (the best one I have owned)

One of the best Castagnaris I ever played was a beat 'window box' Handry.. fine unit. Not for sale.

I would like the OP to state some specifics about his experiences..
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pipives

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2012, 04:05:08 PM »

Best castagnari I've ever owned was a 1996 Lilly. I also know of a 1987 Tommy (as old as me!) and a 1988 Lilly, both of which are superb. In 2002 when I was looking for my first 'posh' box I played both Mory's and Handry's and wasn't impressed with either at the time.  :(
Some of their boxes I've seen recently have been great, some not so good. I was particularly impressed by two Bennys the music room had last november, but I've seen three Tommys in the well known folk firm i work for in the past two years and none have been a patch on Tommys I remember and still see being played from 10 or more years ago.
I am not however saying that build quality has dipped or that Castagnari aren't making great boxes. But the quality does seem to be varying more now than ever.

Just my two pence worth, back to the day job........................................
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2012, 06:30:55 PM »

I'm also owner or a '96 Lilly - also "not for sale"  :|glug
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Steve C.

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2012, 06:52:17 PM »

I guess I have only had good experience, also.

Especially, got a new Lilly during this past year and I don't know if it is the best box for the money but I cannot find a single thing to fault....except, maybe:

Compared to my older Benny (in cherry), the box work on the Lilly (in walnut) is not as smooth, they probably could have used a slightly less grainy piece.  Or perhaps there is some sanding/sealing that could have been better.
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melodeon

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2012, 10:54:52 PM »

I agree on the wood, more often the walnut is light, lots of open pores and "punky" with little grain character.
A few great ones come through though.. specifically about a year ago at The Button Box... shoulda bought it for the looks alone.
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Gary P Chapin

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2012, 11:18:18 PM »

I would disagree with the general statement about Castagnari -- although I can't, of course, say for sure -- and not just to justify my purchase of last February.  I am fortunate to have two fantastic instruments.  A Salterelle from the mid seventies ... I don't know the exact provenance, it came to me as a gift.  I just recently had it tuned and gone over (it had drifted) and it came back and sounded marvelous.  This is relevant because I've only been playing the Salterelle, but last night cracked open the Castagnari Nik box -- a new instrument bought in February -- and it was just effortless.  An amazing box that WANTS to sound good.  I am very fortunate in my boxes.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2012, 07:03:21 AM »

Sez here that Saltarelle started up in 1984  ??? so yours is a  'pre-production' model ;)  Gary.  Though that's entirely possible as their main contribution to engineering is making up a French name and sticking a butterfly on (that's not to suggest that any  underlying Italian lutherie might not be superb)!

We do seem to have another 'what's the problem' wrt modern Castas in this though ....
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Adam-T

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2012, 07:33:16 AM »

Though that's entirely possible as their main contribution to engineering is making up a French name and sticking a butterfly on

LOL - I guess fun is to be had when trying to work out who made what saltarelles and when (unless it was always the Baffettis) , one things for sure, if anyone has a QC issue thesedays its Saltarelle !, heard way too many tales of tuning and build inconsistency to even consider a new one.

BTW they didn`t even make up the name - isn`t a Saltarelle a music style for Dance ?
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2012, 08:16:26 AM »

The word isn't in "Robert/Collins" but from Latin .. it's about jumping.  The Scrabble ::) online dictionary says SALTARELLO: n. A lively medieval Italian dance with a leaping step
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Graham W

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2012, 09:11:56 AM »

Interesting thread! 

I tried to learn as much as I could (Given my terrible French) on my recent trip to La Maison de l'Accordeon as they probably handle more new Castagnari's than pretty much anyone and are clearly passionate about them and work very closely with them - the owner Jean-Pierre Leray spends a week every three months in Italy, most of it at Castagnari.
I guess Castagnari have always been a factory, albeit a very small family run one. The impression I got is that they definately do not want to change that, but are doing whatever they reasonably can to make production more efficient and keep unit costs reasonable. I imagine pehaps being a bit less fussy about wood selection is part of this, Walnut waste is very expensive.  That said, my Handry is made from a lovely piece of nicely grained wood. There is a lot of laser cutting of components rather than by a person with a saw for example, the fit and finish are superb.   Another area in which they are reducing time spent is tuning  -  reeds are apparently all tuned on the bench, then installed in the instrument which is sent out 'standard' with no final tuning in the box. Mme Leray told me that all the Italian factories do it this way now, and that whatever Castagnari do their customers  pretty invariably want their new instruments tuned to their own personal taste anyway and it would make their life much easier if Castagnari sent them the instruments without the reeds fitted. In the case of my own instrument they had apparently taken all the reeds out and started again, evidently this is a normal thing for them to do!
They were very clear that it would then take two years of regular playing for the new instrument to reach it's full potential.
Rees had told me a long time back of the big before and after difference between instruments as supplied by Castagnari, and then after going through La Maison's workshop. He's absolutely right- as supplied they feel like a reasonable Castagnari, afterwards - they sing.

The instruments in the shop seemed pretty superb to me  (:)


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Graham Spencer

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Re: Castagnari is losing its quality
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2012, 09:16:24 AM »

LOL - I guess fun is to be had when trying to work out who made what saltarelles and when (unless it was always the Baffettis)

It wasn't. Mine (a pre-butterfly with the printed namecard in an acrylic window) is by Serenellini, who confusingly had (may still have) a model called a Saltarello.
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