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[Stiamh]

Jeremy, with advancing years we all tend to get more and more "left-brain" oriented. Wishing for a printout with fingering for the D/G in everything ever printed seems to me about as left-brain as you can possibly get, not to mention unrealistic.

The keys that are available to you on a D/G melodeon are few, so learning them shouldn't take long. Ignoring use of the accidentals, you can play anything that has one or two sharps on the key signature. There that didn't take long, did it?

This translates to, for practical purposes:

1 sharp:
G maj
E minor (true E minor)
D mixolydian (D maj with C naturals - common in Irish music especially)
A dorian (A minor but with F# - likewise common)

2 sharps
D maj
E dorian (E minor but with C sharp)
A mixolydian (A major with G natural)
B minor (true B minor)

Aside from that, I think you need to bring your right-brain into the process - through your ears. If you want to play music effectively, your ears have to take precedence over all the theory and instructions in the world.

Can you shut your eyes and dive into the world of music blind, as it were, the way a child would (to the extent that this is possible)? George's advice of "starting somewhere else and getting on with it" is obviously not what you were looking for, but I really think you should try it alongside whatever other approaches you may find helpful.

[Mike Hirst]

Why cant I get a book, print out , or other , showing the various keys that are available

Because you have to do some work for yourself.

I don't say this to imply harsh criticism. It is easy to fool yourself into thinking there is a simple fix. We all do it. I have a shelf full of books on music theory, accordion technique, etc., but the fact remains that the only real learning I have achieved is through sitting down on my own and practicing. The book might point you in the right direction, the book might help you to overcome some fundamental block, but hard work is the only way forward. That is not to imply that it cannot be fun. There is much to be gained from playing scales, arpeggios and progressions - playing with rhythmic emphasis - inventing little melodies of your own. If you want to learn to play a new key practice the scale and then send your brain on vacation. Let your fingers do the walking. There's nothing stopping you here but your own reluctance.

[Chris Brimley]

Sorry, I misunderstood your question, and I like Steve Jones's explanation.  Fundamentally, of all the scales that exist, there aren't that many of them that can be played on a two-row box, so the useful thing would be just to know where the notes for Steve's scales can be found, and yes, there will be alternative fingerings for them.

The main trouble with providing standard scales for the larger boxes which have most if not all of the other notes on the RH, and are therefore RH 'chromatic' would be that there are so many different systems around.   Even players with the larger boxes having lots of accidentals still seem mainly to use the basic keys, with perhaps occasional forays into different ones, because the necessary combinations of basses and trebles are often still unavailable for playing a whole tune in a different key.  Sure, there are exceptions, but each one is probably best worked out on an individual basis.

Does anyone know of any 'quint'/accidental box player at all who has learned all 12 major scales on the RH so that they are able to play the melody of any tune?  I must confess I don't.

[Jeremy Burnett]

Seem to have stirred up a hornets nest! Steve shows what I was interested in, now for the same for the other box tunings. I would not like you to think I cannot do things for myself, I can, but I was hoping for and got a wide range of helpful views.

[Dee J]

I don't know about anyone else, but I feel a little bruised! With most skills one needs to get to a certain basic level by theory/defined method/rote/whatever before the experimental 'just do it' system really starts to work. As with other skill areas there is a whole set of special words, notations etc, a whole raft of conventions and history. When phrases crop up on here I'm regularly scuttling off to try and work out what they mean. So my learning time is a mix between trying to play familiar tunes, trying to add chords and base and digging into the theory to enable me to predict results and understand what is likely to work. So over time I've got a bit of a grasp on why keyboard layouts are as they are and what associated chords are like  as well as the controlled lunacy of the key system etc.

So - working at it - ok, no problem - but what exactly to work at is often the conundrum. The doubt arises - am I learning, or merely ingraining bad habits?

Dee

[DDickie]

Jeremy, it seems to me that you're reading the music from staves?  In which case, if you just copy that into http://musescore.org/, (free software) it will transpose it for you.  Having the tune in electronic form gives you all sorts of other benefits for later.

However, if you're talking about using a range of boxes in different keys, it would perhaps be easiest to learn where the notes for the music are on (arguably say) a D/G box, and then if you want to use a different box, transpose the tune into D, G, Am or Em, and then play it on a different box from that music as if it was  D/G box.  Many wind instrument players do a similar thing.

Actually this leads to an interesting question, which I don't think has come up before - do other members with a range of boxes and who read music (or ABC) use this transposing convention, or do they  learn the different notes on each of their boxes?

If I have the music for tune but it's in "the wrong key" for my D/G, (bB say) I just imagine that my G row is now in that key (using my example, it becomes an F/bB melodeon) and just play the tune directly from the music.  Essentially I am merely keying the right button pattern and letting the instrument do the transposition!

[Marje]

If Steve's admirably clear answer is what you were looking for, Jeremy, then if you want to have the same information for a differently-tuned box, all you have to do is add the same interval on to each note (e.g. G becomes C, so A becomes D, and so on).  You will still find you can play most tunes in the home major keys of your two rows, plus their relative minors, plus the keys in other modes, as listed by Steve, at the same intervals on the box.

But as DDickie says, if you want to play the tunes on a differently tuned box, there's nothing new to learn - you just pick up the new box and play the tune as you learned it on the first box - the intrument will do the transposing. You only need to think about the key if you are trying to play with others.

Maybe you are thinking too hard about all this. You haven't said which box or boxes you want to play, but don't over-complicate things by considering all the possibilities. Just start learning some tunes on whichever box you have, or choose the one you like the sound of, and don't be too analytical about it. A melodeon is quite an intuitive instrument, and if you allow yourself to be guided by its built-in patterns, you can learn your way around it without worrying too much about all the theory. Time enough for that later.

[Jeremy Burnett]

Thanks Marje,actually my whole train of thought was started by printing out the music for "Flatworld" that I wanted to learn. Its, I think In Am. I have a selection of boxes mostly old Hohners that I play regularly nearly every day and in a Breton music band once a week.I play by ear but try to work problems out from the music.So normally I just pick up one and play the tune with the same fingering as the other if you see what I mean. Some tunes seem to me to sound better in different keys as has been pointed out.When it came to Flatworld which is a tune I have long wanted to learn I wondered which key to try. However I have since found a good version on YouTube so am aiming to try and play along with that, he plays on a GC which I use for French music, so I will take from there.

[Marje]

Ah, thanks for the info, Jeremy, we can see where you're coming from now. Sorry if I mistook you for a novice, which is obviously not the case.

As Flatworld is normally played in Am, that fits with playing it on a on a G/C box, because A minor is the relative minor of C major.  On a D/G box I can play it, using the same fingering (give or take a few wrong notes!) but it'll come out in the key of Em. Sorry if this is something you thought was obvious, but it seems to be the issue that was puzzling you. Is this making any sense?

[Theo]

Thanks Marje,actually my whole train of thought was started by printing out the music for "Flatworld" that I wanted to learn.

I believe Andy Cutting plays it in Am on his CF box, or in Bm on his DG. The same fingering on a GC it would be Em.