Melodeon.net Forums
Discussions => General Discussion => Topic started by: Peadar on November 10, 2019, 12:26:20 AM
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Do you suffer from MAD? Are you a borderline case? Use the MAD index to check up on yourself.
The MAD Index is calculated as follows
(M-0.5B)2/(P+1)= MAD Index
Where M = Number of Melodeons in your posession
P= Number of Tunes you can play
B= Unfinished Project Boxes
The healthy MADI range for a normal adult is 0.5- 1.0 but this is subject to peer review.
21/11/2019- Formula modified (M-B) altered to (M-0.5B) to recognise that project boxes should not be completely discounted .....I do wonder if project boxes should be added rather than subtracted since an excessive number would suggest a really serious case of MAD....not merely compulsive acquisition of melodeons but no regard as to whether they are playable or not. Seriously - Alcoholics can accumulate huge collections of empty whisky bottles but they do tend to acquire them full.
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I think this is an important advancement in ‘MAD science.’ So that makes you a MAD scientist, no?
I have five playable melodeons.
one toy that isn’t payable (not counting fully as it is a toy, but that is my take on the model.)
I can play about 20 tunes pretty well
(5-0.5)^2/21=0.96
***EDIT***
I did mine incorrectly, I see. My total melodeon count, M is 5.5, not 5.
(5.5-0.5)^2/21= 1.19
I need to learn a few tunes to get this index into the realms of sanity apparently.
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I'm normal >:E
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I’m not=! :o
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I think I may be a bit of an oddball here - I'm in it for the music. I've got several button accordions right enough - four vintage Paolo Sopranis - but that's not the point. It's not about the accordions, it's about the music. As it happens I can't play anything else, so I play button accordion. I think some of you are in it for the melodeons. I don't understand that.
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(8-3.5)^2/(~20+1)=~0.96
On the verge of madness.
I think I may be a bit of an oddball here - I'm in it for the music. I've got several button accordions right enough - four vintage Paolo Sopranis - but that's not the point. It's not about the accordions, it's about the music. As it happens I can't play anything else, so I play button accordion. I think some of you are in it for the melodeons. I don't understand that.
It's a bit of a combination for me. I'm definitely here for the music, but as I can play other instruments as well, I choose to play the box because for me it best creates the music I want to hear. From here, different boxes have different qualities and sound better when playing different tunes.
Other than that, project boxes etc. are a nice hobby for the thrifty player.
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(15 - 8)²/~100 + 1 = ~ 0.48
Obviously, I'm not quite normal.
Room for another one I think.
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How to take account of different types of melodeons ? One versus two or three rows, different keys etc ? I know lots of tunes on my D/Gs but still getting fingers around the new 2.6 G/C...
Formula might some refinement...
Confused of Shrewsbury
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Current MADI* ..... 15.24
Treatment: learn a few more tunes ;D
I have me eye on a couple more boxes... more tunes ! ::)
*Applying the formula to Instruments (IAD) indicates a CIAD of (!!!) sufficient to cause infinite happiness :D
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The number of tunes I can play is a wild guess - over the years I must have learned hundreds and forgotten at least half of them. However, given a quick reminder I could probably make a stab at a fair proportion of the forgotten ones. After a flick through my session/band tune notebook I settled on a number I thought I could play reliably and got a result of 0.35......
Another Graham
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What do you do if the number of working boxes you have = the number of project boxes? It doesn't seem to matter how many tunes you know, the index works out to zero.
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What do you do if the number of working boxes you have = the number of project boxes? It doesn't seem to matter how many tunes you know, the index works out to zero.
I think M includes both working and non-working boxes.
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I think I may be a bit of an oddball here - I'm in it for the music. I've got several button accordions right enough - four vintage Paolo Sopranis - but that's not the point. It's not about the accordions, it's about the music. As it happens I can't play anything else, so I play button accordion. I think some of you are in it for the melodeons. I don't understand that.
Same here...I’ve got 14 accordions/melodeons and I agree it’s not about these...it’s about the music ;)
So, I’m normal really.
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Applying the formula to my vintage Hohner accordions:
(6-2)2/(24+1) = 16/25 = 0,64 = healthy
Must learn more tunes before fixing those 2 lame boxes ...
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What do you do if the number of working boxes you have = the number of project boxes? It doesn't seem to matter how many tunes you know, the index works out to zero.
I think M includes both working and non-working boxes.
Of course! So that, if your boxes are all project boxes, then your index is zero.
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Current MADI* ..... 15.24
u w0t m8
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So many sufferers, so much denial :(
MAD = Mutually Agreed Denial.............
My maths was never up to much but I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong, my score comes out consistently as 'wombat' :o
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u w0t m8
Unfortunately Google Translate can't handle yoofspeke or English writ like what it's spoke but I'll try me best for you Fred
Yers innit, I wot, u wot 2, wassat innit, innit?
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Unfortunately Google Translate can't handle yoofspeke or English writ like what it's spoke but I'll try me best for you Fred
Yers innit, I wot, u wot 2, wassat innit, innit?
I think Fred was asking you how you arrived at a figure of 15.24 for your MAD Index. Or as the maths teacher at school used to say "show your working" (innit?) ;)
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I think some of you are in it for the melodeons. I don't understand that.
I love both. When I was a kid, I collected manual typewriters, which were abundant because electrics were becoming popular. I had over 30 to my parents' dismay. I loved the complexity of the mechanisms and the power of the result: the written word.
And so, when I went to college, I got tired of moving those typewriters around every semester and donated them to a theater that did a lot of period pieces.
I think my interest in accordions is similar, I'm a wee bit less compulsive about it, but the power of the machine to assist in the expression of emotion is fascinating to me. And, some of them reflect exemplary craftsmanship and are things of beauty unto themselves.
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I think Fred was asking you how you arrived at a figure of 15.24 for your MAD Index. Or as the maths teacher at school used to say "show your working" (innit?) ;)
Hi Pete
That's ('a lot' - 2)² / a few = 15.625 not including the 1 new tune squeezed in today
... I recalculated and counting the 1 new tune today ... no significant change from 15.24 ;D
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That's ('a lot' - 2)² / a few = 15.625 not including the 1 new tune squeezed in today
... I recalculated and counting the 1 new tune today ... no significant change from 15.24 ;D
x^2/y = 15.625
x^2/(y+1) = 15.24
divide the two to get:
y+1/y = 15.625/15.24
15.625y = 15.24y+15.24
0.385y = 15.24
y = 40
x^2 = 625 => x = 25
So 27 boxes, 2 of them projects and 40 or 41 tunes.
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That's ('a lot' - 2)² / a few = 15.625 not including the 1 new tune squeezed in today
x^2/y = 15.625
x^2/(y+1) = 15.24
divide the two to get:
y+1/y = 15.625/15.24
15.625y = 15.24y+15.24
0.385y = 15.24
y = 40
x^2 = 625 >= x = 25
So 27 boxes, 2 of them projects and 40 or 41 tunes.
and then there's the pipes, proper accordions and ...
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45
Call the doctor. I need to learn a lot more tunes...or sell some boxes.
Been so busy working on other folks instruments that I sold out of my own restorations on the website. I hope to have 15 up before Christmas so check back soon and help me out.
BellingersButtonBoxes.com (http://BellingersButtonBoxes.com)
Scott
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Lies, damn lies, and statistics!
If you need to work the numbers to justify it, then you are MAD, but in denial.
If you don't need to work the numbers, then you already know you are MAD.
If you are not reading this thread,.............
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... 0.625 ..... I'm nearly sane :o ..... must get more boxes >:E :|||:
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= 12.8 And I feel normal! ;)
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What do you do if the number of working boxes you have = the number of project boxes? It doesn't seem to matter how many tunes you know, the index works out to zero.
I think M includes both working and non-working boxes.
Of course! So that, if your boxes are all project boxes, then your index is zero.
And you aren't suffering from MAD at all.....and you can justify buying a playable box so you can learn a couple of tunes.
45
Call the doctor. I need to learn a lot more tunes...or sell some boxes.
Been so busy working on other folks instruments that I sold out of my own restorations on the website. I hope to have 15 up before Christmas so check back soon and help me out.
BellingersButtonBoxes.com (http://BellingersButtonBoxes.com)
Scott
In fairness don't think that the term "Aquisition Disorder" can really apply to stock in trade. Unless you go on to take drawings from the business in melodeons rather than cash.
That's ('a lot' - 2)² / a few = 15.625 not including the 1 new tune squeezed in today
... I recalculated and counting the 1 new tune today ... no significant change from 15.24 ;D
x^2/y = 15.625
x^2/(y+1) = 15.24
divide the two to get:
y+1/y = 15.625/15.24 :D
0.385y = 15.24
y = 40
x^2 = 625 => x = 25
So 27 boxes, 2 of them projects and 40 or 41 tunes.
Eshed - Thank you for reminding me how to solve simultaneous equations. Melodeons are so educational ;D
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I've always maintained music is, essentially, mathematical in it's nature.
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Given the numbers that some collect, should volume of residence and spousal consternation be factored in?
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I’m not that good at math, ignorance is bliss >:E
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"I'm normal"
Come on, Nigel! We know you, denial just makes things worse! (That sort of maths is beyond me, but I'm not in denial, I just don't want to know.)
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If there's one thing I'll take away from this thread, it's how few tunes people think they can play - I'm quite surprised by that.
However, I was not surprised by how many melodeons people have.
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I get 0.25 - what does that make me?
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Given the numbers that some collect, should volume of residence and spousal consternation be factored in?
Having lived through large residence and indifference and now with teeny house and total support I can say it does make a big difference... at least four more melodeons*
*not all of them mine.
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It's when they and their assorted cases are scattered around the floor that you know there might be a problem. But they are as nothing compared to the piles of books and folders of tunes !
After considerable contemplation, I reckon the ideal number of instruments is always one more than the number actually possessed...and recovering from M.A.D. is more like entering into a period of remission.
J
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If there's one thing I'll take away from this thread, it's how few tunes people think they can play - I'm quite surprised by that.
However, I was not surprised by how many melodeons people have.
It's a lot easier to count melodeons than to count tunes. I really don't have a clue how many tunes I can play but I know exactly how many melodeons are in the house.
I wonder, among those who have a large number of instruments, how many are played regularly. Maybe we should have a TRUE index and an EFFECTIVE index.
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If there's one thing I'll take away from this thread, it's how few tunes people think they can play - I'm quite surprised by that.
However, I was not surprised by how many melodeons people have.
Same here; my morris repertoire alone must be around the 60 mark, then there's the (at least) 100+ ceilidh band tunes, the tunes I play with a Celtic-based quartet and the fun stuff I play for the hell of it..... Not that I claim to play all of them faultlessly (or even necessarily the same way twice running!), but it's quite a lot of tunes.
Graham
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Having tried to come up with some kind of a measure of MAD and it's severity in individual cases and noting comments - especially those from Blake and Greg. I think an adjustment to the formula is needed....
(M - 0.5B)2/(P+1) = MAD Index
This modification recognises Project Boxes as aquired melodeons and in some cases the actual aquisition disorder may relate to unplayable but otherwise interesting instruments, but discounting them at 50% recognises that they are being processed rather than merely held hostage.
I realised that I had a severe dose of MAD when I was recognised I was aquiring boxes faster than I was learning new tunes.
As before a score of 1 or more puts you over the tipping point into self diagnosisr. It does occur to me that anyscore below 0.5 but above zero means that you haven't got an addiction to melodeon aquisition. If your MAD Index is in the range 0.5- 0.99 you may be at risk...
Clearly you can;'t learn your first tune without a box to play on. .... So when you get yor hands on your first box and have yet to learn a tune,,,,, Your MAD Index = (1-0)2/0+1=1...You are instantly a borderline case. Learn a tune and your index falls to 0.5....after that things can go either way.
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Adjustment should also be made in the tunes part of the equation for acquisition of tune books that have as yet yielded no tunes.
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What about those ( mad-ones ) who try to build or actually build a melodeon, its a project box but not quite.
Surely an extra amount of madness required!! Add in those working / repairing them too!
A lot of work for not much do re mi , nuts! ;D
And then the teachers should get a badge! And a stiff drink:)
When I look back at what I knew when I started, oh my !! ( still clueless with a bit more knowledge)
I got most of the melodeons I have, for playing music or for learning to play music.
But there are a few that just fell into my possession ;)
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MAD = Melodeon Aquisition Disorder.
You have it when you find yourself almost, if not quite, impulse buying melodeons in quantities way beyond those which are good you.
Building your own melodeon is not a sign of MAD.
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I have one, maybe two boxes that will stay with me. All the rest are lodgers and will make their own way in the world when they are good and ready.
I might acquire more tunes, though that is a tad different.
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MAD = Melodeon Aquisition Disorder.
You have it when you find yourself almost, if not quite, impulse buying melodeons in quantities way beyond those which are good you.
Building your own melodeon is not a sign of MAD.
Ok , I have two that where just giving to me not bought that are not much good to me. That probably counts a bit.
I did have to buy parts to make them whole again and I do have to buy ( acquire) melodeon parts to make one.
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My MAD Index score of 0.083 probably indicates a different pathological obsession.
I've identified about 1,200 tunes that I can play reasonably well from memory on melodeon, and that must be clogging up a significant part of my ageing brain.
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It took my a while to count the boxes (including unplayables that aren't actually Works in Progress).
My MAD Index is 14.32 ..... but at least the ironing board is a melodeon free zone.
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Given that the number of tunes know is difficult to define being a variable that varies too much I have come up with my own simpler calculation - and a way of reducing my box score at the same time. Given that in this house we both play melodeon but I am the one with the collecting habit I have decided to add up the total number of boxes in the house and divide by the number of players.
It is reassuring to know that I actually own so few boxes, so few in fact that I don't even qualify for the soubriquet 'Nine Box Nellie' any more.
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It is reassuring to know that I actually own so few boxes, so few in fact that I don't even qualify for the soubriquet 'Nine Box Nellie' any more.
Are you including other free reed squeezy things in this arithmetic?
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Given that the number of tunes know is difficult to define being a variable that varies too much I have come up with my own simpler calculation - and a way of reducing my box score at the same time. Given that in this house we both play melodeon but I am the one with the collecting habit I have decided to add up the total number of boxes in the house and divide by the number of players.
It is reassuring to know that I actually own so few boxes, so few in fact that I don't even qualify for the soubriquet 'Nine Box Nellie' any more.
If you estimate that you can play aprox 80 tunes then 9 boxes is (just) normal. In much the way some of the old 1 rows are (just) tuned in just temperament.
(9)2/(80+1)= 1.0
How does "Nine Box Normal" appeal as a handle?
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Being innumerate .......wot? :o
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81 divided by 81 is 1..
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Update
(6-1)2/(36+1) = 25/37 = 0,68 = still healthy (was 0,64 november 2019)
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11 working, 3 not working, one flutina (iffy), and 2 anglos, both needing work.
SJ
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Badly lagging behind in the MAD department. A mere three melodeons, two concertinas, and a piano accordion 🙂.
... and a large but indeterminate number of harmonicas.
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...and a piano accordion 🙂...
aka a box of spare reeds.
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Some people seem to have too much spare time to postulate mathematical equations related to how many melodeon/accordions one owns. Maybe you need to be squeezing more often.
Every one of my boxes came to me in a memorable way. They each have a unique sound or personality. They are scattered around the house. When I am in the mood to squeeze out a tune, one is always within reach.
Some of my melodeon/accordions have been passed along to others who have great appreciation for a particular squeezebox. These are people who love the sound of a particular box and are not likely to flip it on eBay a day later.
I also have the "basket cases" which are useful for spare parts.
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Index about 22/100. I am down to just 2 boxes. My Lilly has been with … other people for 8 years.
It was five + 2 +concertinas at one point, 1990s. I then tended to sell & replace for a decade or so, while evolving a “melodeons should be played” philosophy, and a “one box per festival” policy.
My Damascene progress was aided by ex wife running of with a gypsy, and also our bagpipes, trombone, gurdy etcetera. My progress to 3-row designer kit aided by a driver who put me in ITU for a week, but was insured 👍 and plea bargained “dangerous” when offered “reckless” by the cops”
I’d criticise the index maths, in squaring the n of melodeons it super inflates the index for those of us still in melodeon horticultural stage, which I regard as healthy.
Basically the kit just … circulates? Much of it is second hand, and my hobby didn’t really cost until I had that chat with Gaillard. Most boxes … went for a bit more than I’d paid (in a time of inflation).
I would appeal to folk with 2-3 rarely played melodeons to find these “good new homes” 🤔
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Well, you say that Chris, but I disagree. I have 2 boxes that I play regularly, a D/G bandoneon tuned pressed wood, and a G/C with a varnished wooden case, and a gold Greek Key pattern, the model name/number of which, I don't know. The others mostly sit on the shelf, but dang me, they look real purty ! Sometimes I looks at them, and rubs me 'ands, and calls them "My Precious", but I assure you that's quite normal.
Sir ( Uriah Heep ) John
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I'm quite happy buying any box I like the look of (under £100) and sorting it out to play nicely. New valves, wax etc and tuning.
If I take to it I'll keep it for the moment otherwise I sell it and someone gets a nice box and that frees up some money for the next project.
Having said that, I notice I've got 7 or 8 Liliput/Preciosa boxes in various states from derelict to gorgeous. There may be a glut on the market soon.
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Nov 2019 my score was 12.8 and I felt normal,
now I am up to 22.5 . . . . . . . and I feel cured. (:) Totally cured!
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Sorry, I hold to my view that musical instruments are to be played.
We did have just over 30 (3-4 melodeons) in our music room in the late 90’s,
but many were playable junk shop stuff. Our kids could pick up whatever they
chose, and had to “ask” for lessons.
Nearly all are now scrapped, or moved onward. Some to other families.
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I have never taken a melodeon/accordion census at my house. I guess if I want to determine my "madness" score, I will have to make a list, check it twice.
No forget it, too much trouble. I will just grab my 2-row Chinese box and play an Austrian tune.
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I know I'm in denial. Stop hassling me. >:(
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.. also you can only play one box at a time. I never saw anyone do any better - not even the Chipolatas with their multi talented juggling acrobatics.
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Easier to juggle Liliputs than Handrys.
And cheaper.
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A Hohner Preciosa is also easier to juggle than a heavy Mundinger Musette 120-bass piano accordion.
I want to rig up an organ pedal-board to an electronic keyboard so my feet can play along with my Mundinger.
I guess that would be the actual definition of "madness".
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A Hohner Preciosa is also easier to juggle than a heavy Mundinger Musette 120-bass piano accordion.
I want to rig up an organ pedal-board to an electronic keyboard so my feet can play along with my Mundinger.
I guess that would be the actual definition of "madness".
Nah. That's just common or garden insanity.
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It is just an idea I had, some micro-switches on the pedal-board and a cable to the keyboard.
Actually I got the Helikon Bass sound I was looking for by using a sub-sonic bass synthesizer. It takes the bass note and adds another note an octave below the original.
In effect it is like having an additional set of deep bass Helikon reeds.
My box is an ADC DSS-100 which is identical to a DBX 120. I have another box which does the same thing, a Pioneer SP-101.
I call these boxes "Turbo-Helikon"! My piano accordion sounds like a Steirische Harmonika in the amplifier.
Some call it madness. I call it FUN!
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Update
(6-1)2/(44+1) = 25/45 = 0,56 = still healthy (was 0,64 november 2019; was 0,68 august 2020)
Note: must learn more tunes before fixing my WeltMeister.
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Provisional update provided DHL don't drop it.
A Hohner club VI in a gorgeous ivory finish is on its way.
Watch this space. This will be a keeper.
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So much easier to keep track of the melodeons you own, than the tunes you know. Personally, at least !
I'm convinced that learning a new tune means that I now lose another - if only I could choose which ones to forget...I've got three good tunes to learn for next weeks workshops, and can I forget Dingle Regatta, Keel Row, and Trumpet Hornpipe now please ?
The true test might be sitting down and playing as many tunes as I can remember, maybe twice through, with just a few moments recovery time between each, until either I run out of steam (air ?) or the wife or neighbours complain. But often I can't remember the name of the tune anyway.
I really should have started and maintained a tune list when I first started playing.
Julian
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...I really should have started and maintained a tune list when I first started playing.
I did this for a few years, when I started playing music.
I had in Excel file with 3 pages
1. Tunes I like. Every tune I came across that attracted my attention as worth learning.
2. Tunes to learn. That's where I moved a tune to when I decided to work on it.
3. Tunes I know. I moved tunes there when I knew them well enough to play fluently.
After a bit I realised there was a fourth category. Tunes I used to know, but have forgotten, so I raised a page for it.
I dutifully moved tunes there from the 3rd category and set out to relearn them.
Wait a few more years and I realised that Category 4 was by far the biggest and wasn't likely to get any smaller in this lifetime.
The list is a thing of the past. A guilty memory.
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I can realise I know a tune, and join in, not knowing what it's called. I can also name several tunes I have learned, but I can't remember how they start. There are about half a dozen, I can play when they are mentioned, then there's the limbo tunes, neither remembered or fully forgotten.
Writing them down does no good at all.
Sir John
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"I can realise I know a tune, and join in, not knowing what it's called. I can also name several tunes I have learned, but I can't remember how they start. There are about half a dozen, I can play when they are mentioned, then there's the limbo tunes, neither remembered or fully forgotten.
Writing them down does no good at all."
I could have truthfully written all of that myself, Sir John. But I'm sure that although we're in a minority there, it won't be a tiny one!
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I believe you are all unduly worrying....there are only 4 tunes. The fast one, the slow one, the minor one and the one that goes. :|glug
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There's also the one that starts out as one thing then turns into something else halfway through... much to the bewilderment of session/band-mates.
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There's also the one that starts out as one thing then turns into something else halfway through... much to the bewilderment of session/band-mates.
No, that's (Insert Melodeon Player of Your Choice)'s version of The One That Goes... :|glug
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There's also the one that starts out as one thing then turns into something else halfway through... much to the bewilderment of session/band-mates.
We had a bad attack of that in our socially distanced practice session, last week.
The B part of No man's Jig insisted on being the B part of Rakes of Mallow.
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Baz's comment brings to mind a comment from his friend Dave Hunt when we were playing in a session.
He related the story that one of the old boys was playing tunes. Other players kept asking the names 'Pidgeon on a Gate' was the reply to every tune.
In the end someone said they are all called the same....
"No, different pidgeon, different gate ..." 8)
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I think I have a Box for each key combo.....a D/G, C/F, Bb/Eb, A/D, F/Bb.....I don't have the nouse to move the tune around the buttons, I just pick up a different Box to suit what my ear thinks is right, but I do like the lower ones.
On the tunes front, I manfully ( or stupidly ) tried to lead with a few at Halsway. Discovery number one - just cos I like Parsons Farewell doesn't make it a session tune and number two, "mashing up" ( to use the vernacular ) the 'A' part of L'inconnu de Limoise with the 'B' part of La Marianne by accident :-[ is likely to lead to confusion, comments about knowing a similar tune but not "that" one and someone competent rapidly taking up the next silence.
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There's also the one that starts out as one thing then turns into something else halfway through... much to the bewilderment of session/band-mates.
We had a bad attack of that in our socially distanced practice session, last week.
The B part of No man's Jig insisted on being the B part of Rakes of Mallow.
I haven't tried playing No Mallows Jig - is it worth learning Greg ? ;)
J
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You are all in denial......or maybe Frankentunes count as extra tunes....if AB & A'B' are 2 tunes then AB' and A'B count as two extra tunes...? Is that how you hide your MAD???
Then there's BA, B'A', BA', B'A ..... Eight Tunes for the price of Two.
Hmmmmmm.
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...I haven't tried playing No Mallows Jig - is it worth learning Greg ? ;)
J
Only when mixed in with This Old Man. I think it becomes This Old No Mallows Jig when we dance Brimfield.
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There's also the one that starts out as one thing then turns into something else halfway through... much to the bewilderment of session/band-mates.
I believe Winston has boxes like that........
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Baz's comment brings to mind a comment from his friend Dave Hunt when we were playing in a session.
He related the story that one of the old boys was playing tunes. Other players kept asking the names 'Pidgeon on a Gate' was the reply to every tune.
In the end someone said they are all called :|glugthe same....
"No, different pidgeon, different gate ..." 8)
Yep...Oscar Woods...god bless him :|glug
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Ah Oscar.... thanks for that Baz.
I still remember sitting in the pub in Exeter with Dave telling the story, just couldn't remember who said it!
Happy Days ...
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Meanwhile, in certain parallel universes …
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b067x3vy
…confessions from collectors of different old musical instruments, pocket monsters, and cuckoo clocks describe themselves in remarkably similar terms 🤔