Melodeon.net Forums
Discussions => Instrument Makes and Models => Topic started by: mselic on May 18, 2020, 02:14:55 PM
-
I’m wondering if anyone on this forum (Triskel, perhaps?) is aware of when Hohner began production of the HA114 model. I’m assuming it would have been sometime in the 1950s. The earliest models seemed to have had the following characteristics:
-no Hohner logo on the front
-wooden keyboard
-cloth bass strap
-H reeds
-17+2 bellows folds
-textured/patterned bellows tape
The first thing to change at some point was the inclusion of the Hohner logo, and then at some point (I’m guessing the 1960s) the keyboard became plastic (or Bakelite), T reeds were used, bass strap became leather (or faux leather?) and the bellows tape became that standard papery rubbish. The box went through a few other changes, such as gold end frames instead of silver, reduction of bellows folds from 17+2 to 16+2, and then eventually 14+2, and the use of gold and red bellows tape without any silver. The final change that I noticed was a much brighter/garish goldbrand finish and black bellows tape.
Does anyone know anything about the timeline of these changes (or other changes that I haven’t mentioned?). At some point production would have moved to China, but I’m unsure of when that would have been. Also, it seems that production of the 3 and 2-stops was phased out at some point as well, and I’m also unaware of the timeline for that.
None of the above is important by any means, I’m just interested!
-
The ones without the logo on the front and a wooden keyboard often have a random selection of zinc and alley reedplates so I reckon late 40s early 50s? I like these the best, especially the 112s. Bakelite keyboard tend to have a mix of T and H ally plates and still have that sound. I have always assumed the plates date the box The Ally H plates are late 40s / early 50s onwards club 3 pre corona etc the square club 3b/r/s often has the mix of ally and zinc plates
-
I presume the HA114 is strictly a post war model? Anything marked "Made in Germany" is pre 1945.
Edited to add: Or post 1989
-
Thanks, Jon. I believe the HA114 model began production sometime in the 1950s. I’m hoping someone with access to the older Hohner catalogues might be able to confirm.
-
I presume the HA114 is strictly a post war model? Anything marked "Made in Germany" is pre 1945.
Did you mean "post 1945"?
-
I presume the HA114 is strictly a post war model? Anything marked "Made in Germany" is pre 1945.
Did you mean "post 1945"?
I’m sure he meant "pre 1945".
-
I presume the HA114 is strictly a post war model? Anything marked "Made in Germany" is pre 1945.
Did you mean "post 1945"?
I’m sure he meant "pre 1945".
Pre 1945 ....or of course post re-unification...the Berlin wall fell in 1989...what year did re-unifcation happen?
-
I presume the HA114 is strictly a post war model? Anything marked "Made in Germany" is pre 1945.
Did you mean "post 1945"?
I’m sure he meant "pre 1945".
Pre 1945 ....or of course post re-unification...the Berlin wall fell in 1989...what year did re-unifcation happen?
I have Hohners from 1960s, 70s and 80s, all marked Made in Germany, all post 1945.
I really don't understand what you are all saying. Have I missed something due to lockdown brain-melt?
-
I presume the HA114 is strictly a post war model? Anything marked "Made in Germany" is pre 1945.
Did you mean "post 1945"?
I’m sure he meant "pre 1945".
Pre 1945 ....or of course post re-unification...the Berlin wall fell in 1989...what year did re-unifcation happen?
I have Hohners from 1960s, 70s and 80s, all marked Made in Germany, all post 1945.
I really don't understand what you are all saying. Have I missed something due to lockdown brain-melt?
Marked Germany rather than West Germany or W. Germany?
-
Prior to re-unification things made in west Germany were usually marked "Made in Germany". Products from the east are usually marked "Made in DDR"
Prior to WW2 products from what we now call Germany were often marked with the name of the state. So if accordions from Klingenthal are marked with their origin it is virtually always "Made in Saxony".
-
Made in Germany. Photo of late 1950s or early 1960s Hohner attached.
-
Yes, as Theo and Reed have pointed out, Hohners made from the 1950s up until the time they moved production to China (late 1990s maybe?) were branded with “Made in Germany”. All of my Hohners from the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s are stamped with this mark.
-
I have Hohners from 1960s, 70s and 80s, all marked Made in Germany, all post 1945.
I really don't understand what you are all saying. Have I missed something due to lockdown brain-melt?
Peadar supposes that during the division of Germany (1949 – 1990) goods were marked either "Made in GDR" or "Made in Western Germany". (Of course, things were more complicated. It’s a highly political subject we maybe shouldn’t delve into.)
-
My oldest one I reckon, but a HA112, with a wooden, lyre shaped fingerboard, no Hohner logo, wick gasket, leather valves H reeds. Key of D and squeaky.
-
Prior to re-unification things made in west Germany were usually marked "Made in Germany". Products from the east are usually marked "Made in DDR"
Prior to WW2 products from what we now call Germany were often marked with the name of the state. So if accordions from Klingenthal are marked with their origin it is virtually always "Made in Saxony".
I stand corrected on the post 1945 marking of Hohners, though if I remember correctly "Made in W.Germany" was a common branding on photographic/optical equipment.
I have been forming the impression that there was a fairly abrupt transition from branding accordions "Made in Saxony" to "Made in Germany" just afterWW1 - circa 1919-20.
I have a pair of Wyper patent Internationals -one of them branded "Made in Saxony," the other "Made in Germany". Peter Wyper applied for his patent (for a keyboard layout) in 1915. It was granted in 1916, operative from 1915, so would have expired in 1922. However Peter Wyper himself died in 1920, so the branding is unlikely to have gone on any box after 1921/22.
I also have 2 of the Wilkinson open pallet Excelsiors- one of them "Made in Wurtenburg" has a date pencilled inside- 1926. The other "Made in Germany", came from the seller's family home in Orkney and the believed origial owner of this box was a general merchant who died in 1939.
Both of these have the Wyper patent keyboard layout- though the patent is not acknowledged- unneccessary after expiry.
Lastly a "Klingenthal" Vienna type 1 row - "Golden Domes" Made in Germany and branded "Established 1864" and "Sixty Years 1864-1924".
I really don't want to contradict Theo on this one- he has seen more boxes than I ever will but I do wonder about what as going on. It may be that at that point in time accordian exports from were a microcosm of the German manufacturing economy - which was labouring under the punitive war reparations forced on the country under the Treaty of Versaille (Footnote: I did my undergraduate machine shop training in the maintenace shops of Lever Brother's Ltd in 1979- at that time there were two main groups of machine tools in the place the "new" machines - mainly American capstan lathes delivered on the Liberty ships and the "Old" machines - post WW1 war reparations. I appreciate why Sebastian says "Maybe we shoulldn't go there" but I went to secondary school in England and the History "O" level syllabus I took in 1976 was "Modern European History 1789-1945". It does no harm to see our hobby/instruments/music within the context of wider history).
(Maybe this post belongs in a thread of its own)
-
Very nice, gettabettabox! I forgot about the wick gasket that was used on these older ones. Interesting that it features all leather valves - I’ve not yet seen one of the HA11x series like that. The ones I’ve seen have all been plastic with plastic-on-leather for the lowest reeds, and that includes an older 4-stop that didn’t feature the Hohner logo on the front.
You can also see on yours that the silver tape is the heavier, textured/patterned kind that I mentioned in my original post. At some point the silver tape became patterned in the same way as the silver coating on the end frames. The old silver tape seemed to stand up a little better to wear, with the adjacent gold and red tape wearing down more noticeably.
Thanks for sharing!
-
I have a friend who tells me he purchased his first Hohner HA114 in 1956. If he is in fact correct, that is the earliest mention of the HA114 that I've come across. Does anyone know if they were production prior to that?
I've also come across this thread from a while back:
http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,24281.msg289357.html#msg289357
In it, someone has posted Hohner catalogues from the 1970s, including at least one that features Hohner's entire instrument lineup at the time, including accordions. I've noticed that HA114s were not featured in any of them. Did production of them stop at some point and then resume?
-
I am advised this one is 'early', candle-wick gasket, H reeds, no logo, canvas bass strap, in 'D' as per ink. There is one obvious 'T reed amongst the H's on the Treble side and 'T' bass reeds. I am 'challenged' by the prospect of re-waxing / valving / tuning given the glued on blocks. It may 'come right' without the need for a full overhaul but a few reeds are quiet or 'cranky'.
I have the magnets, as per Lester's advice, to do the slides but have been on other projects which may have been for the better!
-
Very nice, Nigel! I have one in D just like this. Does yours have the Hohner logo on the front? It seems that a lot of the early models might have been in the key of D, as almost all of the ones with wooden keyboard that I have seen have been in that key. Never seen one in G, although that’s what Michael J. Kennedy played on his one record so I know they were made. These older ones with the H reeds tend to have a different tone than the later ones with T reeds.
Regarding overhaul, at some point it really would be best practice to replace all the valves and wax. I tried cheating a little on a few of these older HA114s, thinking I could get away with just changing the odd valve, etc, but in the end it was best served by re-doing it all. The outer reeds are easy enough to wax, but the inner ones take time and a steady hand. I’ve gotten pretty decent at it now. You just can’t be in a rush ;)
I also just installed magnets via Lester’s method - works like a charm!
-
No, no logo. I currently apply wax in Charlie style using a brush. I think I am bit ham-fisted for getting in that gap.
I have 'fabricated' a copper 'tube' applicator in readiness for getting 'in there' but I am going to have a go on a P/work size box to get the hang of the 'tool' over the brush. I am also working on making one that runs off an 'encaustic' wax tool - like a cooler soldering iron - designed for wax 'work', for constant ( gentle ) warming of the fluid wax.
Lock-down madness knows no bounds.....
-
No, no logo. I currently apply wax in Charlie style using a brush. I think I am bit ham-fisted for getting in that gap.
I have 'fabricated' a copper 'tube' applicator in readiness for getting 'in there' but I am going to have a go on a P/work size box to get the hang of the 'tool' over the brush. I am also working on making one that runs off an 'encaustic' wax tool - like a cooler soldering iron - designed for wax 'work', for constant ( gentle ) warming of the fluid wax.
Lock-down madness knows no bounds.....
No logo suggests it is one of the earliest models.
Regarding waxing, most of my waxing is done with a paintbrush in the same manner as Charlie Marshall described. The right brushes make a big difference, and getting between the inner-facing blocks is very doable with practice. There are other ways of going about it as well, and have been discussed on this forum elsewhere. Good luck with it however you go about it!
Sound clips of your old box are always welcome! ;)
-
Inspired by the discussion ( and having got it out ) I did the magnets and re-valved/waxed the first three reeds on the '1st stop' row. The leather reeds were furled, the third reed plate - the D/E was reversed, ie. 'H' stamp to the wood but sounded like a stone in a tin-can, despite the wax looking sound.
With the slides sorted and the valves and 'cronky' D/E re-waxed, it plays remarkably nicely. I think I will convert everything to '2' bass/chord. Much less confusing.
I will see if I can organise a sound file in a tunes I can play.