Single Reed Plate

[boaz-1990]

[diatonix]

In the days of old it was common practice to rivet the reeds  (bronze or brass, later also steel) on a single (zinc-)plate. As such it doesn't give any indication to neither origins nor value. It is still found in modern instruments (such as the Russian Bayan) and offers undisputed acoustic advantages, being rather unpractical in many other aspects.

[pgroff]

diatonix,

Can you tell us more about the acoustic advantages of the single long plate with multiple tongues?

FWIW my own unscientific opinion has been that some free-reed instruments built that way (even fairly budget models) can have a wonderfully musical tone quality. But I'm not sure why .... (? resonances carried by the plate over to the reed tongues whose pallets aren't open?)

PG

[OldDog]

Hi,
You might be able to identify the manufacturer of your accordion by his trademark - if any.  This is usually found on the metal corners of the boxes. I have a book - 'The Harmonica Makers of Germany and Austria' - which has a section devoted to a lot of trademarks. These are all harmonica manufacturers, but a lot of them also made accordions so their marks are here (Not all of the marks, but a lot). Otto Weidlich, for example, used a swan as well as the 'Empress' brand-name as his trademark. See what you can find. Maybe I can help. You said that there was the image of a dog on the pull-knob. F.A. Rauner used a bulldog standing facing left as his trademark.

Regards,
Paul N.
Tonawanda, NY

[boaz-1990]

Thanks for all your replies.

I'm glad that it can still have a good tone with a single reed plate as i was considering building new reed blocks and having separate reeds! I haven't had the chance to play it yet because the bellows were in a bad way but hope it has a good tone.

Also sadly the metal corners are just plain metal no markings, and also it is just the head of the dog. I will try and get a picture up of it, it may not be a dog at all!

Boaz

[diatonix]

Hi pgroff,
a simple experiment will be quite revealing: Take a loose reed (i.e. frame with 2 reeds), preferably a larger one, hold it between thumb and index, then pluck one of the reeds. You will hear a sound, which disappears almost immediately and you will feel distinct vibrations in the hand that holds the reed. Put the same reed in a vice (without tightening too much or you will damage the frame) and pluck one of the reeds. The sound will be louder, more sustained. The reed will vibrate much longer.
A reed always tries to unload energy to its surroundings, instead of using the same energy to produce sound.  Usually reeds are fastened to the block with wax. In the beginning the average wax is still rather soft, thus absorbing more energy (resulting in less sound), as it hardens the box gets louder. Unfortunately most types of wax tend to get brittle after a certain number of years loosening its grip around the reed frame. The sound gets weaker, and there might be other disturbing side effects. That's the reason why reeds in high end instruments are kept in place with nails or screws. The main function of the wax in this case is to prevent air leaks. Sometimes there is no wax at all, and the manufacturer uses cork or leather instead (which may give way to other problems). The reed still tries to transmit energy to the reed blocks and other parts of the instrument, a vibrating reedblock means less sound and unregular beatings (tremolo). This is why it is so important to connect the blocks with a "bridge" (it. "traversina"). It also means that using "tone wood" in reed blocks or "sound"-boards has absolutely no effect... accordions are not violins.
The best way to force a reed not to disperse energy is to rivet all in a row on one long plate. This will have the same effect as the vice in the above mentioned experiment. There will be no need for wax, the plate rests on cork or leather (fastened with screws, nails or hooks). The problem: It's not user friendly at all. Should a reed break, even your local accordion technician may not be able to help you.

[pgroff]

diatonix,

Thank you for that very lucid and convincing explanation!

I had thought about the idea of extra mass in the reedplate.

But there also seems to be an extra "ring" in the whole instrument in some of these with long-plate reed banks, and I have wondered if some resonance might be contributed by sympathetic vibration in some reedtongues whose pallets are not open.  If I understand you, you are suggesting that with all the damping of vibration from the long plate, this is not likely.

I love the sound of long zinc plates, but steel reedtongues on long aluminum plates can have a unique sound also -- as in some cheap Beaver Brand 2-row vienna style accordions I have seen (these had 4 long aluminum plates on the melody side, 2 for each row).

Now on the "accordions are not violins" -- well, yes.  The soundboard on an accordion (or concertina) will function differently than the top of a violin, or guitar, or the very heavily braced soundboard of a piano. But many substitution experiments have convinced me that soundboard materials in concertinas and accordions can sometimes affect tone quality.  I may be wrong, but I am (fallibly) certain that I hear this.  I think this occurs not so much by the soundboard resonating, but by differentially reflecting and/or absorbing harmonics to color the basic sound produced by the reeds in the reedpan or on the reedblock -- so the soundboard (in conjunction with the action case and grillework) may act as a filter shaping the timbre of the instrument. Just my opinion.  But I have an open mind, and would be very interested to learn from your experience on this subject.

Paul Groff

[Theo]

...I think this occurs not so much by the soundboard resonating, but by differentially reflecting and/or absorbing harmonics to color the basic sound produced by the reeds in the reedpan or on the reedblock -- so the soundboard (in conjunction with the action case and grillework) may act as a filter shaping the timbre of the instrument...

Paul,  I've suspected something similar for a while now.   So in stringed instruments the carcase of the instrument can add to the sound produced by the strings, but in free-reed instruments the carcase can only subtract from the sound produce by the reeds.

[Andy Simpson]

To use an everyday example, if you can imagine someone talking to you from behind a closed wooden door and then a closed glass one...

[oggiesnr]

On classic bandoneons the reeds are rivetted onto zinc plates.

Steve

[melodeon]

There is an age old discussion about resonator guitars a nd the contribution made by the body and top woods

One camp says that premium backs and sides such as East Indian Rosewood and tops of Spruce make a major contribution to the sound of the instrument.

The other group says that the body of a resonator guitar is much like a speaker cabinet, and the woods make a minimal contribution; the majority of these builders use laminates and  that the size and shape of the cavity, the actual interior surface and the bafflles make more of a contribution.

The only down side I see to long plate reeds was maintenance and electrolosis.
I very much like the sound

I have also played instruments with aluminum long plates... lighter for sure but also a very pleasing sound

I would like to know when individual reed plates were first used and when long plates .. in general use not to include specialized instruments such as bandoneons... were discontinued.

[Andy in Vermont]

But many substitution experiments have convinced me that soundboard materials in concertinas and accordions can sometimes affect tone quality.  I may be wrong, but I am (fallibly) certain that I hear this.  I think this occurs not so much by the soundboard resonating, but by differentially reflecting and/or absorbing harmonics to color the basic sound produced by the reeds in the reedpan or on the reedblock -- so the soundboard (in conjunction with the action case and grillework) may act as a filter shaping the timbre of the instrument. Just my opinion.  But I have an open mind, and would be very interested to learn from your experience on this subject.

Paul, thanks for sharing this point of view.  Years ago, at a conference in NY (re: concertinas), Wim Wakker also made a very convincing case for this. 

[melodeon]

Harry Geuns also believes that the surfaces, not so much the materials, makes and shape the sound/color.

[C age ing]

Harry Geuns also believes that the surfaces, not so much the materials, makes and shape the sound/color.

Do remember reading about acoustics somewhere and it mentioned eigentones. (apologies if it is misspelt.)

These resonances do affect the sound and are probably present in all instruments with physical boundaries around the sound generator.
OMG:-That means the lot.

Must go and lie down as the brain is hurting.