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Author Topic: Buying Advice  (Read 6246 times)

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John Luffrum

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2019, 09:22:50 AM »

Thanks everyone again for the continuing thoughtful advice

George has made me pause and wonder if I'm really ready for a "better" box after only a year - perhaps I should learn to play the one I've got first!

But Theo's comment about the responsiveness of reeds rang a bell in terms of "what am I looking for". As I do (I think) improve and look to play a little faster and add grace and incidental notes, it is the speed of response I'm struggling with... now, should I keep practicing to improve my technique, or am I battling with a box that just won't respond any faster? Would I find it easier (and perhaps more satisfying) to play a more responsive box. Or is that taking a shortcut that I will regret later?

We talk about the impatience of youth... what about the impatience of age as you realise you don't have another 50 years in which to hone your skills?!!!!!

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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2019, 10:05:45 AM »

...am I battling with a box that just won't respond any faster? Would I find it easier (and perhaps more satisfying) to play a more responsive box. Or is that taking a shortcut that I will regret later?

A good Hohner is a good box. Just as responsive as Italian boxes and a lot, lot cheaper. They do sound different, though. Some of us like that sound.
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Greg Smith
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Theo

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2019, 10:57:42 AM »

...am I battling with a box that just won't respond any faster? Would I find it easier (and perhaps more satisfying) to play a more responsive box. Or is that taking a shortcut that I will regret later?

You can best answer that by trying other boxes. Weight and bulk also comes into it and the extra weight of a bigger box can to some extent cancel out the benefit of more responsive reeds. 

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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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george garside

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2019, 12:00:28 PM »

just a general thought/observation about the ''responsiveness'' of boxes.   Both the quality of reeds and how they are set up have a direct effect on 'responsiveness'  but also the way the box is handled  can also greatly effect responsiveness particularly when playing a tune 'on the row' that involves a lot of swift ins and outs of the bellows.   The further out the bellows are extended the less responsive the box is to changes of bellows direction as the bellows try to wriggle sideways as well as going in and out. Keeping the bellows always as near closed as possible ( according of course to the basic needs of the tune)  can greatly increase ''responiveness'' as can tapping the bass very lightly which reduces the distance of an in/out manoeuvre.  Also attaching the box firmly to ones person can help as it prevents part of the bellows movement being wasted shoving the body of the box one way or t'other  before actually producing a note!

The duke of perth (broons reel) is a good example of a tune requiring responsiveness  and I  bring the bellows down to about 6 inches open for the fast in and outing

george
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richard.fleming

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2019, 05:54:54 PM »

Look at boxes, listen to them,  try them out. By the time you are really ready for a better box you'll know yourself and won't need to ask.
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Steve C.

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2019, 06:28:16 PM »

John, old fellow, I hate to tell you this, but unless one started playing 20 or 30 or 40 years ago, and is talented, you (like me) will "never" sound like the melodeon greats one one hears on melodeon net.  'Tis sad but true.  :'(
Does not matter what box one buys.  How much it costs.  How responsive the reeds are. etc. etc.  I get a Handry and still will not sound like Ricardo Tesi.  Ever.
That said ( :Ph ) if you like the sound of Pokerwork/Ericas, get one. Get a nice fettling job on it.  If you like Castagnari LMM or whatever, and can afford, get one.  Hell, if you love the looks of Gabanelli's, get one (to each his own).  Who doesn't love a D Castagnari Melodeon LMMH?  Get one of those too.
But ya gotta learn to play.
IMO.
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playandteach

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2019, 06:47:27 PM »

No matter how good it looks and sounds, if your fingers can't get to the buttons then its not for you. I have small hands so am acutely aware of button spacing which can vary between makers.
That's interesting, I also have small hands, but have never noticed an issue on any box - flat or stepped keyboard all feel fine (although I do need lightly sprung buttons). Just goes to show that we all have different requirements - I've noticed when you look at tripadvisor for reviews, most people think something is lovely, but one or two say it's the worst experience they've ever had.
When I was a clarinet player, I ended up travelling directly to the factories in Paris to choose instruments and mouthpieces. I know that VanDoren also started putting a stamp on mouthpieces to show which of the workers finished the mouthpieces - such a personal thing it is. They also experimented with requests for specific reed machines so you could order boxes of reeds made only on machine 7 etc. Both ideas floundered I think, because they ended up with a discard pile.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2019, 08:07:39 PM »

P&T: There's a further point to my comment.
I was trying a friend's Loffet Gret e Breiz and though it was a lovely thing my left hand simply couldn't accommodate using the air button and get to the basses.
I could not reach.
A couple of years back, DTN of the parish came and stayed for a band gig, and his entourage of boxes were in the house overnight. He started playing his latest acquisition, a Loffet Gret e Breiz in AD. It sounded so good I decided to give it a go, but was dubious after my first encounter. It was *just lovely*, sounded wonderful and fitted me like a glove. I didn't want to put it down.
As hard as I tried, he managed to work out where I'd hidden it so it went home with him... ;)
I've no idea why the earlier one was so different, maybe in the intervening years they'd changed their button spacing.... I cannot explain it.
One fitted, one didn't.
Hence - trying is important!
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

John Luffrum

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2019, 12:01:44 AM »

OK, message received loud and clear: go and try stuff. Buy what I love and can afford (and I know an expensive box won’t make me a great player - applies to guitars too!) Thanks to all for your patience and good natured thoughts :)
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xgx

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2019, 09:56:54 AM »

(...)
George has made me pause and wonder if I'm really ready for a "better" box after only a year - perhaps I should learn to play the one I've got first!

are you familiar with M A D ?

(...)should I keep practicing to improve my technique?
You already know the answer :)   Keep playing the tunes you like, the rest will follow ...as long as you're enjoying it (!)


We talk about the impatience of youth... what about the impatience of age as you realise you don't have another 50 years in which to hone your skills?!!!!!

see the last comment above ...it's all about enjoying the whole experience ;)
 


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Graham

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richard.fleming

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2019, 10:04:19 AM »

Really don't get the finger spacing stuff. Never seen a box where the button spacing was more than fingers spacing. Anyway you move your fingers around, don't you? It's not like a big whistle where the  need to stretch to cover the holes is because several of the holes need to be covered at the same time.
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malcolmbebb

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2019, 10:51:37 AM »

I think the comment applies to left hand. I have a friend with small hands who cannot reach all the basses if her hand is correctly positioned for the air button, and that's on a Pokerwork.
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george garside

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2019, 10:57:01 AM »

(...)
George has made me pause and wonder if I'm really ready for a "better" box after only a year - perhaps I should learn to play the one I've got first!

are you familiar with M A D ?

(...)should I keep practicing to improve my technique?
You already know the answer :)   Keep playing the tunes you like, the rest will follow ...as long as you're enjoying it (!)


Indeed - there is absolutely no point in playing or learning to play any instrument if you don't thoroughly enjoy so doing  and that included 'enjoying'  tussling with the bits you find difficult.

george :||: :|||: :|glug :|glug :|glug :|glug


We talk about the impatience of youth... what about the impatience of age as you realise you don't have another 50 years in which to hone your skills?!!!!!

see the last comment above ...it's all about enjoying the whole experience ;)
 

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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2019, 10:59:42 AM »

Yes I was referring to my left hand on a particular box and my inability to cover the air button and get to all the basses comfortably. The next time I tried the same make and model, the spacing was resolved and the incident I've put down to an odd quirk.
Thank you Malcolm, glad to know it's not just me with small hands!
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Julian S

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2019, 11:45:44 AM »

I have always preferred to have the 8 basses I use most on my 12 bass boxes nearest to the air button - to reduce the stretch and also because I can only use three fingers (my bent little fingers are ideal for the An Dro dance but the left isn't much use otherwise !)
As I get to grips with my 14 bass Pariselle (lovely sound), the bass layout is providing a particular challenge. I suspect changing it round could be problematic and I'll probably get used to it in time. And it does take a while to get to know an instrument and recognise the possible flaws as well as the positives- which is the problem with most buying decisions.
 Having gone back to using a Pokerwork for the Morris, I am gradually building up the scar tissue again on my left wrist from the sharp edge - even though I use a leather wrist protector. At least the scars don't get blacking in them now !

J
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2019, 12:09:47 PM »

Going back to my problem with the Gret e Breiz, there is a further complication on the left hand that compounded by inability to stretch.
The original box where I had a problem, had an unusual air button. It was a sort of rocker.  I cannot exactly remember as it was some time back, but the button was a curved one, not a straight line Italian style lever or Hohner button so thumb placement had to be precise. That was why I struggled.

I appreciate 12 or 14 basses pose a change of style and I imagine movement across them is totally different again.
Something I have no real experience of!
Good luck Julian, that Pariselle is worth the effort!
Q
 
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Jesse Smith

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2019, 02:00:53 PM »

Really don't get the finger spacing stuff. Never seen a box where the button spacing was more than fingers spacing. Anyway you move your fingers around, don't you? It's not like a big whistle where the  need to stretch to cover the holes is because several of the holes need to be covered at the same time.

Maybe if you're trying to play a lot of right hand chord stuff, like the way Tony Hall plays a high harmony with his pinky while the lower fingers are playing the melody or the rest of the chord. I can imagine someone with smaller hands playing a box with wider button spacing would have a more difficult time.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2019, 04:17:53 PM »

Or....
If like me you use the chin end accidentals frequently and have a 4th button start 2 row  DG, there gets to be a point when turning your wrist to reach them with your first finger won't work.
You then need to jump between the treble button up to the accidental. That's fine, unless you miss!
Still, practice makes perfect....
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

george garside

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2019, 05:27:24 PM »

I always use my thumb for the chin end accidentals for the simple reason that the thumb joint articulates sideways much better than finger joints.   It takes a bit of getting used to initialy but is well worth the effort as it leaves 4 fingers to get on with playing the tune and/ or adding right hand chords whilst also playing the melody.

However to make full use of the thumb it is absolutely essential that the box is firmly attached to the player so the thumb is not in any way responsible for steadying or locating; the keyboard relative to the person.   Which is why I always use  2  reasonably  wide padded straps on all my boxes.

george
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richard.fleming

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Re: Buying Advice
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2019, 05:38:07 PM »

You then need to jump between the treble button up to the accidental.

That's what you get with a DG, isn't it? So glad I wasn't lured into the DG trap. Best thing I never did.
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